The Scythe as a weapon.

[urbanspaceman]

Are AG's arguments relevant to the subject?
Scythes as 'weapons of war' is the subject; and a fascinating one at that.
It appears to me that the soldiers are waiting on the blacksmiths for blades to be attached to their poles... it is an exceptional image in many ways.
It matters-not what is on the anvil, and any spurious speculation to that end is very much beside the point (no pun intended).
Of course the rural Chinese peasants were masters at developing very effective fighting styles using domestic materials and farming implements.
Please excuse my late appearance.

[Peter Hudson]

Originally Posted by urbanspaceman

Are AG's arguments relevant to the subject?
Scythes as 'weapons of war' is the subject; and a fascinating one at that.
It appears to me that the soldiers are waiting on the blacksmiths for blades to be attached to their poles... it is an exceptional image in many ways.
It matters-not what is on the anvil, and any spurious speculation to that end is very much beside the point (no pun intended).
Of course the rural Chinese peasants were masters at developing very effective fighting styles using domestic materials and farming implements.
Please excuse my late appearance.

Hello Keith, Oh I thought so...and it is always a pleasure to attract a response these days... I think it is often dangerous or feels dodgey going out on a limb so far ... and with seemingly absolutely no interaction coming back for what seems like ages... AG Maisey picked up on the interesting word conundrum at his #44 which I might have missed ... .. By the way your detail on SCYTHES Being made at Shotley Bridge was very interesting... I recall a distant memory of looking at the garden spades in my Grandfathers shed which were stamped on the blade with the Shotley Bridge mark...That was when I was about 8... Anyway this thread gives us a chance to tie a lot of stuff in about Scythes being used in Partisan battles ... It also reminds me to try to picture the old Scythe I handled on my Scythe Course near Otterburn a year or two ago which was a Flambouyant bladed item; super sharp but without blademarks ... but what was eye opening was the apparently ancient sharpening tools that all Scythe users are taught... which consists of little wheels and a toffee hammer...and a sharpening stone and which in my view leads us back to the strange sword sharpening system probably used at Shotley Bridge in some form ...I wonder if those little wheels were used on Rapiers or Colchemardes...at Shotley Bridge... The key word is Peening I think.

Regards Peter Hudson

[fernando]

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[Interested Party]

Originally Posted by Peter Hudson

Hello Keith, Oh I thought so...and it is always a pleasure to attract a response these days... but what was eye opening was the apparently ancient sharpening tools that all Scythe users are taught... which consists of little wheels and a toffee hammer...and a sharpening stone and which in my view leads us back to the strange sword sharpening system probably used at Shotley Bridge in some form ...I wonder if those little wheels were used on Rapiers or Colchemardes...at Shotley Bridge... The key word is Peening I think.

I thought that system worked best on a softer blade and served to work harden a small section of the edge that then was maintained with a stone till the hardened section was used up? It seems that the temper on a small sword would be too hard?

[Interested Party]

"and it is always a pleasure to attract a response these days... "

I ran across some images a while back of forward curving swords in "Diderot's L'Encyclopedie, Art de L'escrime " that I thought i would share. Two have a forward curving blade complete with a cross section (non-scythelike) in the second plate. The third has some sheathed blades with guards that could indicate a forward curve, but more likely an artistic error.

Secondly, I have attached some pictures of a modern North American scythe to help clarify the issue on tangs. I do not know if Europe used this same system. To me the tang looks easily adaptable with only a few heats to a pole arm. The tang could be lengthened with a scarp weld and reinforced with a long sleave to add strength and some defense against being cut. This combination was used in some early middle age spears to my understanding.

[Peter Hudson]

Dear Interested Party,
Thank you for posting the accurate research illustrating sketches of Scythe blades ...and the other curved shaped blades from Fourbisseur references etc. The tangs on the Scythes are accurate and I believe you are correct in writing that the straightening out process would be simple and fast; converting this agricultural tool to a rudimentary but effective pole arm. This is great support and is good to see from Forum.
Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

The Scythe as a weapon clearly illustrated by the Artist.. Józef Chełmoński.

Regards, Peter Hudson.

[Peter Hudson]

In the late 1600s it is written that included in the weapons were converted farming tools as weapons which were noted amongst others as SCYTHES.

1548: On this day, an inventory was taken of all the munitions
and ordnance of war held within Newcastle. These give us a
fascinating insight into the machinery of sixteenth-century
warfare, as well as Newcastle's often surprising provisions
for conflict. Most of the foot soldiers were equipped with
black bills (a hooked blade on a 5-6 feet long stick) or bows
-there were 2,ooo of each! Others had pikes (4oo), and demilances (250) with smaller numbers of staves. Also held in the
city were weapons made by converting farming equipment
- hedging bills, scythes, sickles and axes.