The Knife Amnesty in the UK....the repercussions for edged weapons collectors - Page 2

Tim Simmons · 28th June 2006, 09:05 PM

This is where concerns of "freedom" get a little silly. I like to think we are not wild animals and do not need to walk around our environments with substitute claws and fangs. Some effort should be put into stopping this cultish side to nastiness {just cannot think of another term} I know bad things happen and there are indeed some very unpleasant people around. Hey, if I felt I needed or wanted one of these knives then I hope someone would take me to the doctor. Lets have a big shoot out and stab fest in the shopping mall, you just do not need it. I do not like the idea of going to the corner shop and feeling half of the safe looking customers are carrying weapons. What if I looked at you the wrong way or bumped into you or some other misunderstanding happened and arguing took place, could I rely on your responsibility. It is always someone else who is a crazy.

not2sharp · 28th June 2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

There is something to be said in favor of living in "The States" .

This might be a good time to ship parts of your collections over seas. At least then you have the option of either moving there, selling it, or moving it back when the laws permit. Just sitting there as the water rises may leave you trapped in a mess where the only option left to you is to surrender it to the authorities for distruction.

n2s

not2sharp · 28th June 2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

This is where concerns of "freedom" get a little silly. ... I do not like the idea of going to the corner shop and feeling half of the safe looking customers are carrying weapons."

Even if you strip everyone nakked, there is always a good chance that anyone crazy enough to attack you will simply smash your head into the ground until it splits open. The world is what it is; and the presence, or removal, of artifacts is not going to change that.

n2s

katana · 28th June 2006, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by not2sharp

This might be a good time to ship parts of your collections over seas. At least then you have the option of either moving there, selling it, or moving it back when the laws permit. Just sitting there as the water rises may leave you trapped in a mess where the only option left to you is to surrender it to the authorities for distruction.

n2s

I really hope it doesn't get as bad as that........I'll have to start collecting
guns or .... stamps

At least they haven't mentioned blow pipes...... I've got two ....

Rick · 28th June 2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

I really hope it doesn't get as bad as that........I'll have to start collecting
guns or .... stamps

At least they haven't mentioned blow pipes...... I've got two ....

Ahem , they're illegal in my state .
I've got one , shhhh ..

mross · 28th June 2006, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aqtai

I don't think this applies to collectors. For starters we don't carry our blades around. Mine are in a box in my study waiting to be mounted on the wall. And we certainly don't go around stabbing people. This law is for yobs who stab teenagers in front of schools etc.

Saying that I was in the Royal Armouries Museum in Leeds today, and they had an exhibit of amnestied bladed objects, and among the usual homemade knives, modern hunting knives etc was an antique cavalry sabre...

Please take note of my reference to the UK gun ban. No one cared if it was a
collector piece and safetly locked away. It be came contraband and had to be turned in.

katana · 28th June 2006, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Ahem , they're illegal in my state .
I've got one , shhhh ..

A very interesting ethnographic hunting tool........not that I hunt with them myself.......to lazy......easier to 'hunt' in the super-market and the only weapon I need ...is my credit card..........and thats killing me

I vote for a credit card amnesty.... I suspect they are killing us all

A. G. Maisey · 29th June 2006, 12:07 AM

The point has been made that restrictive action taken by those in authority, is really about control.

It is probably fair to assume that most people in the world today live in communities.

The purpose of a community is to support and sustain the members of the community.

The members of the community must submit to the level of control necessary to ensure that the community remains a viable entity.

The viability of any community in the developed world today depends upon that community's continued economic viability.

The economic viability of a community relies upon the members of that community being productive units who will direct their productive capacity towards the support of themselves and the community.

If restrictive action is about control, and I personally believe that it is, it may be of benefit to all of us to try to come to some sort of understanding in respect of who gains the greatest benefit from that control.

Does the greatest benefit accrue to the community member who is furthest down in the pecking order of the community, or does it accrue to the community member who is at the top of the pecking order?

Since communities in the developed world are economic entities, is it not reasonable to expect to find that those at the top of the community pecking order, are also at the top of the economic pecking order?

Has anybody noticed the increasing polarisation of wealth in our societies?

Does anybody truly believe that our elected representatives are acting in the best interests of the majority of people who elected them?

Or is it possible that those elected to govern us are in fact governing us in a fashion calculated to produce the greatest benefits for those in control of the economic wealth of the community?

If this is so, then ask yourself, who really controls the community in which I live?

Is it I and my neighbour through the power of our vote and our voice, or is it some unseen person or organisation?

When we have lost all our rights, ( or , if you live in Australia, your privileges,) except those inalienable rights to be born, produce, consume, and die, we may console ourselves with the thought that as members of a community we have ensured the continuation of a system that on the whole has more to recommend it than its alternative.

You thought this was all about taking away our toys?

Well, it ain't.

Its about the continuation of the human race.

If a steamroller is coming down the road a smart man steps to one side, he does not try to stop it.

ariel · 29th June 2006, 12:57 AM

There used to be a horrendously strict weapon control in USSR: a hunting knife required a police permit. Well, anybody with a neuron in his brain had a home-made shiv, and kitchen knives were used widely. I have a book:" Russian Prison Knives": you should see what kinds of knives imprisoned criminals made in the GULAG!

t_c · 29th June 2006, 04:03 AM

I think one of the main problems is trying to educate people who do not collect or who do not practice martial arts, that we (hopefully I can speak a little for all of us collectors/practioners) are not the ones out there committing violent crimes with our weapons. I have been having an OCD (obssesive compulsize disorder) couple of months buying edged stuff on ebay and was recently scolded (albeit lightly) on my shopping habits by one our secretaries who works with abused children through her church. She didn't understand that just because I buy all these vintage/antique knives, it doesn't mean that I am an advocate of violence. Her only point of reference was the violence in the history of the children she worked with and could only see the potential for violence in my acquisitions. It took me until today to articulate to her that people like me (us) weren't the problem. It is the people who are under great stress to just survive that has pushed them away from the social norms we all normally share (and yes there are the simply mis-wired individuals out there). What lawmakers are too naive or don't care to see (disregarding A. G. Maisey's lucid points on State, Control, and The Citizen) is that if you take away the knives, they will use sticks. Take away the sticks and they will use stones. As Rivkin expressed earlier: it's not the tool, it's the intent. As for the people who do partake in violent activties (outside the ring): my own personal equation for the ills of society (to over-simplify) goes like this: economic deprevation = social degeneration. In the end it's all about stress, and money, being the medium for much of our modern world, is the primary source of this (again: over-simplifing). Controlling weapons does nothing to solve the real problems. I have carried a knife on my person for the better part of 14 years and not once have I ever brandished it or threatened anyone with it, and I have been mugged (four dollars and a cigarette is not really worth fighting for) and have had someone threaten me with the threat of a firearm (never saw it - probably didn't have it). My use of the proverbial silver tongue has disarmed another on more than one occasion. The point is that I wish we could find a way to better express to people that we (collectors and practioners) are not the threat: Let us keep these things that speak to our soul for we will not abuse them, and the people that would abuse them, would abuse anything anyways. That's the source of my frustration in these issues.....
And also, it does horify me that someone would make scrap metal out of someone else's cultural heritage (keep your treasures under the floorboards if you have to).

Ian · 29th June 2006, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

At least they haven't mentioned blow pipes...... I've got two ....

There are pipes for that?

ariel · 29th June 2006, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

There are pipes for that?

Please refer to this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2660

Rick · 29th June 2006, 02:13 PM

Well said tc , They will still come up with the excuse that your home could be robbed thereby supplying criminals with weapons .
I think at least one of us has had their collection stolen .
I agree about economic despair; welfare was supposed to take care of that .
In some cases welfare has actually exacerbated that problem .

A few of us have taken notice of Alan's steamroller on the horizon ; most of us have not .

Rick · 29th June 2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

Please refer to this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2660

Which , by the way, is getting rather raunchy and well past PG13 .

I'm feeling some remorse today .

nechesh · 29th June 2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Which , by the way, is getting rather raunchy and well past PG13 .

I'm feeling some remorse today .

Experiencing a sexism hang-over Rick?

Maybe we should ask Ann and some of the other VERY FEW (wonder why?) women who participate on these forums to give you boys a good talking too.
As Julliette Lewis said to Woody Harrelson in "Natural Born Killers" after he killed the old indian guy, "BADBADBADBADBADBADBAD!!!"

VANDOO · 29th June 2006, 06:39 PM

IN THE USA THE PRESS AND LIBERALS HAVE CREATED A CLASS SYSTEM FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT VERY RICH OR FAMOUS. THEY HAVE USED THE MEDIA THEY CONTORL TO TELL US HOW BAD SOME GROUPS HAVE BEEN TREATED IN THE PAST WHILE TRYING TO SHAME OTHER GROUPS INTO LAYING DOWN AND BEING DESTROYED FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST. IT IS CALLED THE MINORITY PLAN AND ENCOURAGES HATRED, FEAR AND MISTRUST AMOUNG ALL THE CLASSES BELOW THE VERY RICH AND FAMOUS. WELFARE IS SET UP TO JUST KEEP YOU AFLOAT BUT ITS EASY FOR EVEN THE UNEDUCATED TO SEE THAT THEY HAVE NO FUTURE AND IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF HARD WORK AND LUCK TO BREAK OUT AND BE SUCESSFUL. THE MEDIA AND LIBERALS TELL THEM ITS THE OTHER CLASSES FAULT SO YOU SHOULD PROTEST BY HAVING A RIOT AND LOOT AND BURN UP ALL THE BUSINESS IN YOUR NEBHORHOOD. NOTHING THE PRESS LIKES BETTER THAN A GOOD RIOT OR DISASTER AND ITS NOT THE POOR LOOTERS WHO GET THE BLAME ITS THE CLASS THAT HAPPENS TO BE IN THE MEDIA CROSS HAIRS ALL THE TIME.

THIS SETS UP THE WORKING CLASS AND THE NON WORKING CLASS TO BE AGAINST EACH OTHER MAKEING IT EASIER TO CONTROL BOTH GROUPS. THOSE WHO THINK THEY ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BY THE ENTIRE SOCIETY WILL TAKE THE WELFARE BUT HATE THE SYSTEM AND OFTEN TURN TO VIOLENCE AND CRIME TO GET EVEN WITH THE SYSTEM. THEY THINK THE WORKERS ARE FOOLS AND ENJOY TAKEING WHAT THEY WORK FOR AWAY FROM THEM.

IN MY AREA WE HAVE MULTIPLE LOCAL PROBLEMS
1. ELITE POLITICIANS WHO ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN ENRICHING THEMSELVES AT EVERYONE ELSES EXPENSE.
2. MEDIA CONTROLLED BY THE VERY RICH WHO ALSO WORK WITH OR OWN THE POLITICIANS.
3.THE CLASS SYSTEM THEY HAVE SET UP AND THE HATE ,MISTRUST AND FEAR IT ENCOURAGES.
4. THE PRESS CONSTANTLY OPENS OLD WOUNDS AND MAKES THEM A DAY TO REMEMBER WHAT ONE GROUP DID TO THE OTHER GROUP ON THAT DATE 100 YEARS OR SO AGO SHOULD NEVER BE FORGOTTEN OR FORGIVEN. THEN THE LAWYERS JUMP IN FIND A DISGRUNTLED FAMILY MEMBER OR SURVIVIOR AND SUE EVERY ONE THEY CAN AND THE TAXPAYERS END UP PAYING THE SETTELMENT AND LAWYERS BILLS. THE TAXPAYERS HAVE MADE MULTI MILLIONARES OUT OF MANY LAWYERS AND MINORITY POLICEMEN AND DISGRUNTLED MINORITYS LOCALLY INSTEAD OF FIXING OUR CITYS PROBLEMS.
5.OUR BIG COMPANYS HIRE LAWYERS WHO TELL THEM HOW TO LEGALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR WORKERS AND GIVE THEMSELVES MILLIONS IN BOUNUS FOR THE BRILLIANT STRADEGY OF LAYING OFF HALF THE WORK FORCE. SENDING THE JOBS OVERSEAS OR ONLY LETTING THEIR CUSTOMERS TALK TO ANSWERING MACHINES AND OF COURSE LAYING OFF ANYONE 50 YEARS OLD AND NOT HIREING 50 YEARS OR OVER UNLESS ABSOLUTLY NECESSARY. THEY HOPE TO SET IT UP WHERE EMPLOYEES SHOULD FIND A NEW JOB EVERY 4.5 YEARS SO NONE WILL EVER BE VESTED TO DRAW RETIREMENT. THE CEO WHO CAN SUCESSFULLY DO THESE THINGS USUALLY PUTS A FEW 100 MILLION IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT.
5.OUR STATE LEADERS HAVE DECIDED THAT WE CAN GAMBLE OUR WAY TO PROSPERITY. WE NOW HAVE MORE GAMBELING CASINOS HERE THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY THEY ARE MAKEING A LOT OF MONEY BUT OUR TAX'S ,WATER BILLS AND EVERYTHING ARE GOING UP A LOT EVEN THOUGH WE WERE PROMISED THE GAMBELING MONEY WOULD NOT MAKE THAT NECESSARY.
6. AT THE CURRENT RATE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION TO THE AREA WE WILL BE THIRD WORLD AND SPEAKING SPANISH IN 10 YEARS IF THEY ALLOW US TO STAY HERE.
7. NOT ALL ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS COME HERE FOR THE OPORTUNITY TO WORK AND THEY ALSO TAKE GOOD JOBS NOT ONLY THOSE THE AMERICANS ARE TOO LAZY TO DO AND DON'T WANT. IT IS ALSO THE LAND OF GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY FOR CRIMINALS ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO THIRD WORLD COUNTRYS SO WE HAVE OUR LOCAL BAD GUYS AND MANY FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD ALSO.

8.CRIME IS SKYROCKETING, DRUG DEALING, GANGS FORIGN AND DOMESTIC,GAMBELING, BURGARLY, AND VIOLENT CRIMES SUCH AS MURDER ARE WAY UP. AND OF COURSE THE CITY NEEDS TO RAISE OUR TAXES SOME MORE BECAUSE WE NEED MORE POLICE AND SCHOOL TEACHERS AS USUAL.
8. BUT NEVER FEAR OUR LEADERS WILL FIX IT ALL BY TAKEING GUNS, KNIVES AND ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE USED FOR SELF DEFENCE AWAY FROM THE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. THE CRIMINAL WILL STILL HAVE THEM AND THE VERY RICH AND FAMOUS WILL HAVE THEIR WELL ARMED SECURITY FORCES OR BODY GAURDS AND SPECIAL POLICE PROTECTION TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PROTECTED SO THEY CAN LOOK AFTER US.

ONCE A BODY OF PEOPLE ARE GIVEN THE JOB OF MAKEING A LAW TO TAKE AWAY SOMETHING FROM THE LAW ABIDING THEY ARE NEVER SATISFIED AND WILL KEEP TAKEING MORE AWAY AND MAKEING MORE LAWS AFTER ALL THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THEIR JOBS.

WHEN NATURAL RIGHTS BECOMES A PRIVILEGE THEN ONLY THE PRIVELEGED WILL HAVE THOSE RIGHTS!

I AM SURE I COULD COME UP WITH MORE RANTS BUT THATS MORE THAN ENOUGH.

katana · 29th June 2006, 06:56 PM

Vandoo, from your observations, there indeed seems to be a
DIVIDE AND CONQUER mentality.........and lets face it most Sovereign Countries, that have accumilated Empires, used this method to good effect.

Create dis-harmony amongst the population...... and while they are arguing and fighting..... you quietly take control...

A. G. Maisey · 30th June 2006, 01:39 AM

Divide and conquer?

Yes.

But divide and rule is perhaps the more correct dictum.

There is no taking of control whilst the populace is otherwise occupied. That control is maintained by keeping the populace occupied with matters that prevent them from thinking about the management of their society by government.

What Barry has described is exactly the practical application of the principle.

However, whichever political party may appear to be managing government, that political party's leaders are themselves being managed by the people, groups of people, and organisations which are at the top of the societal tree.

Anybody here remember Vietnam?

Remember what happened to the Dow every time there were rumours of peace?

And what happened after each major offensive?

Where has the middle class in developed societies gone?

Does the period during which the decline of this middle class has occurred correspond to the period during which western capital has transferred its manufacturing operations to China, its administrative processes to India and Singapore, and whatever other transferable processes it can identify to places where wage rates are very much below what the wage rates are in developed countries?

What is the nature of the employment that remains available for the present and rising generations in developed countries?

Blind Freddy can see that there is no longer the foundation in industry nor commerce which produced the middle class that arose following the industrial revolution.

The wheel of history has turned and wealth, and along with it, position in society, is now in the process of polarising to the situation that was in place in Europe prior to the industrial revolution.

Before this polarisation is complete, there will be a lot of very unhappy people in the populations of the developed countries. If the elite wish to have a reasonable chance of controlling these people , and of managing the economies of these countries, it is necessary for the populations of these countries to be re-engineered into docility and obediance.

There are many tools that can be employed to achieve these ends, and one of these tools is the disarming of the populace. You cannot disarm any group of people that believes in the sanctity of weaponry, nor its necessity to maintain civilian life and protect personal property.

Thus, where a society is already very stable and well controlled, as it is in Australia, you can immediately indoctrinate the community, commencing in school, with the belief that only sociopaths and criminals possess any form of weapon.

Where a society is a little less well controlled, you need to create the conditions where people will believe in the lesser of two evils. By encouraging a proliferation of civilian weaponry in a society that already has severe social schism, and at the same time setting in place social policies that exacerbate that schism, ultimately you will produce a situation where murder and mayhem will become routine. At this point you offer the solution, and that solution will involve severe restrictions that would not be tolerated in a well ordered society.

Those of us with an interest in weaponry are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. We probably all should have been born at least 100 years ago. We are dinosaurs, we all know what happened to the dinosaurs. But we are human dinosaurs, and as humans, we have the power of reason. We may not be able to stop the wheel of time from turning, but we can deduce what it may crush next, and we can step to one side. Along with our collections.

It is important, I believe, to view this entire process with an appreciation of the time frame that could be involved. I think world population is due to peak somewhere within the next 50 years or so. If China continues development at its present rate it will dominate world trade, and by extension, world economics and military power, within 20 to 30 years. Probably the completion of US societal re-engineering cannot be seriously advanced within a time frame that will impact greatly upon anybody reading this. However, there is no doubt that in the more ordered societies of Western Europe, and in my own country, Australia, we can expect to see a continued truncation of civil liberties.Within my lifetime I expect to see many of my present "privileges" (in this country we do not have "rights") reduced or removed. My age is 65.

Andrew · 30th June 2006, 03:19 AM

It's inevitable that this topic will slide inexorably toward politics. However, let's all please stay away from polarizing the discussion with references to "liberal/conservative" or party politics.

I know my request is a difficult one to adhere to, given the nature of the discussion, but none of us should be eager to see this thread deteriorate into political debate. I am also aware that I, myself, have made somewhat political comments on this thread. Its an interesting and relevant discussion to our forum and, well, I want to participate and see it continue.

Let's try to keep the discussion objective and cool. I don't think any of the world's power elite post here, so we should be okay blaming them for everything.

katana · 30th June 2006, 12:15 PM

A. G. Maisey your comments are well founded, like you I believe that there are unseen forces whch are dictating a change in social order. What is trully worrying is that this phenomena appears to be Global, many of us, be it British, American, Australian etc. have noticed the same errotion of civil liberties and a gradual shift of power ( both social and economic) to a small minority within each country's population.
The concerns of us (as collectors) regarding the possible reviews of 'knife law' seem to have only scratched the surface of a much larger problem.......the continuing loss of individual human rights.

There is a social order, where individual rights are unheard of, where each member works and lives (unquestionably) for the benefit of the whole
community, which sustains ONE individual.
They are ANTS....... the question is not 'are we mice or men' but rather, are we Ants or men.....................

Rick · 30th June 2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

A. G. Maisey your comments are well founded, like you I believe that there are unseen forces whch are dictating a change in social order. What is trully worrying is that this phenomena appears to be Global, many of us, be it British, American, Australian etc. have noticed the same errotion of civil liberties and a gradual shift of power ( both social and economic) to a small minority within each country's population.
The concerns of us (as collectors) regarding the possible reviews of 'knife law' seem to have only scratched the surface of a much larger problem.......the continuing loss of individual human rights.

There is a social order, where individual rights are unheard of, where each member works and lives (unquestionably) for the benefit of the whole
community, which sustains ONE individual.
They are ANTS....... the question is not 'are we mice or men' but rather, are we Ants or men.....................

More and more the world is not run by governments but by corporations of all kinds .
To answer your question, yes you are still a man ; but more important than that you are a consumer .

Emanuel · 30th June 2006, 05:01 PM

I think that will is the only weapon that man -or any other creature- needs. Knives or any tools are irrelevant; if one has the will to hurt or do damage, there's no law that can stop him/her. These ridiculous laws are indeed just methods of control, the problem is that the frogs don't want to accept what they should already know. The establishment is so well controlled that genuine concerns of liberty, rights, etc, are simply not addressed. The frogs know they're boiling, but they have no will to get out of the pan -and even worse, they lack the will to shut off the flame even when they can.

What I find mind-boggling is just the huge number of people that are frogs in this world, and when other frogs try to jump out of their kettles and they bump ours, we get upset and start fights.

The comments made by fellow forumites are right on the money. Another, part of the problem with the world, I think, is that it functions upon false assumptions. I believe there is no economic multiplier effect. For one place or person to prosper, another must decline. I also believe that the natural state of mankind is one of inequality. Equality can only be maintained artificially and to some cost by the community, and now -as has been said- the maintenance of that semblance of equality is being eroded and done away with.

Sad...the wheel of time is indeed unstopable. But the false assumptions (including today's globalization/integration/polarization) may still be broken.

About the Knife Amnesty law: I'm sorry for people of the UK, they're being tricked into destroying chunks of their history, and giving up some hard-earned rights.

Right now in Canada, I still have my most of my rights (including that of collecting some artefacts once used as weapons) but fear-mongering regarding jumping frogs has made it harder to speak one's thoughts, and many rights will soon be reduced in the interest of "national security."
Getting out of the way of the roller is only a temporary fix however...put enough people around it, and it'll stop.

Hmm...anyone ever read Atlas Shrugged?

VANDOO · 30th June 2006, 06:52 PM

YES I HAVE READ ATLAS SHRUGGED BY AYN RAND IT IS A GOOD READ AS WELL AS EXPRESSING A PHILOSOPHY AND LIKE H.G. WELLS DID PREDICT SOME OF THE FUTURE CONSIDERING WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN.

THE MAIN PROBLEMS WITH SOCALISM AND COMMUNISM IS THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE NOT ALIKE AND WHEN YOU REDUCE THE REWARDS TO THE SAME LEVEL FOR EVERYONE NO MATTER WHAT THE JOB OR HOW HARD YOU WORK OR HOW TALENTED THE INDIVIDUAL THEN MOST STOP TRYING. IF ALL YOU ARE PROVIDED BY YOUR KEEPERS IS THE SAME AS EVERYONE, A PLACE TO SLEEP A BOWL OF FOOD A FEW CLOTHES AND A JOB BASED ON WHAT THEY THINK YOU SHOULD DO, NOT ON YOUR TALENTS OR WANTS WHY DO ANY MORE WORK THAN YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO. THE KEEPERS WHO CONTROL EVERYTHING LIVE THE GOOD VERY RICH LIFE AND COME DOWN VERY HARD ON ANYONE WHO DOSEN'T DO AS THEY ARE TOLD SO MANY EXAMPLES ARE MADE FOR MINOR INFRACTIONS. THE ONLY WAY THIS WOULD WORK FOR LONG IS IF THE MAJORITY ARE EDUCATED FROM BIRTH TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE TOLD WITHOUT REASONING IT OUT LOGICALLY AND KEPT FROM KNOWING WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON IN THE REST OF THE WORLD. PERHAPS YOU COULD KEEP THEM UNEDUCATED OR DRUGGED TO HAVE THE PERFECT ZOMBIE WORK FORCE, UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE KEEPERS, IN TODAYS WORLD ZOMBIES DON'T MAKE A VERY GOOD WORK FORCE NO MATTER HOW CHEAP THEY WORK.

HUMANS ARE ALL WIRED TO SURVIVE AND AQUIRE THE THINGS WE INSTINTLY NEED FOR A GOOD LIFE, WE WANT TO HAVE A WIFE A FAMILY, FOOD,SHELTER, BELONGINGS AND FUN. SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE BORN WITH MORE TALENT AND DRIVE AND WILL GET BETTER JOBS AND MAKE BETTER DECISIONS THAN OTHERS. SOME WILL USE WHAT TALENTS THEY HAVE AND STILL HAVE MOST OF THE THINGS EVERYONE WANTS BUT NOTHING EXTRA AND BE VERY CONTENT AS THEY DID THE WORK THEMSELVES AND TAKE PRIDE IN THAT. THERE HAVE TO BE GOOD LAWMAKERS AS THAT IS WHAT KEEPS THOSE WHO ARE VERY POWERFUL FROM TAKEING WHAT THOSE WITH LESS TALENTS AND POWER HAVE WORKED FOR. THAT IS WHERE THE CHIEF PROBLEM WITH THE USA COMES IN WE NEED PEOPLE IN A POSITION OF POWER TO CONTROL THE GREED OF THOSE WITH LOTS OF MONEY AND POWER. BUT THE ONES WITH THE HUNGER TO TAKE IT ALL FOR THEMSELVES HAVE MOST OF THE POWER THIS IS THE CASE IN MANY OTHER COUNTRYS AS WELL. FROM WHAT I CAN SEE WHEN YOU GET SO MUCH MONEY AND POWER THAT IT DOSEN'T THRILL YOU OR MAKE YOU FEEL POWERFUL TO ADD SEVERAL BILLION DOLLARS TO YOUR PILE ANY MORE. THEN YOU LIKE TO SEE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY UNDER YOUR THUMB WITH NOTHING AND STRUGGLEING TO SURVIVE AND YOU CAN TAKE IT ALL AWAY AT WILL WHICH MAKES YOU FEEL BIG AGAIN. ITS CALLED BEING A DICTATOR BUT IS REFERED TO IN OTHER TERMS IN MANY COUNTRYS. JUST GUESSING ABOUT THE VERY POWERFUL THEY STAY BEHIND THE SCENES AND I AM CERTIANLY NOT ONE OF THEM SO MUST GO ON HISTORY AND WHAT I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS.
I HAD NOT PLANNED TO POST AGAIN ON THIS TOPIC BUT THE REFRENCE TO ATLAS SHRUGGED MADE ME DO IT

MABAGANI · 30th June 2006, 07:34 PM

So in light of the different theories of where we're headed, what's everyone have planned for their collections. I went through a house fire over a year ago, caused by a smoking tenant, my family was not harmed (thank God) and for some uncanny reason my entire collection was spared damage, but I've downsized quite a bit after a move...when I saw the place up in flames I kissed everything goodbye but was suprised to be able to recover all my belongings, sooner or later the artifacts need to be preserved by the next generation, maybe move them on to close relatives and friends, also universities and museums I've worked with...

BSMStar · 30th June 2006, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

More and more the world is not run by governments but by corporations of all kinds.

Dude, you must have seen RollerBall.

(Sorry - having flashbacks).

Rick · 30th June 2006, 07:50 PM

Mabagani et al ,
I seriously don't know what to do with most of mine ; a few might be museum worthy but only if I know that they would never be deacessioned ; if that's going to happen then I'll sell them myself .
If I knew of my imminent demise I believe that I would offer some of them to fellow forum members who I know would respect them and keep them safe; I'm not saying for free ; more like for cost or possibly a little less .
I would like to see my Moro stuff go back into that community to further enhance that culture from which so much has been stolen .
A few pieces I would leave to my Son ; all in all I want to have these artifacts live on being appreciated rather than locked in a drawer to slowly rust in a museum .

No joking please; I'm serious .

katana · 30th June 2006, 07:58 PM

I've just been watching the T.V. News..... Apparently ...even with the 'knife amnesty' ....23 people have died from Knife attacks (in G.B.) in the past 5 weeks, NOW people are saying the amnesty ,does and will, not work. Well, I think that we have concluded as much. My sympathies to all the families and friends of the victims. One case in particular stands out.....a man walking home with his girlfriend.... is fatally stabbed 7 times by a complete stranger with NO motive at all......and the perpetrator IS STILL AT LARGE.
This guy, (the murderer) must be some sort of psychopath....yes a knife was used....but if a knife was not available I am sure he would have used something else.....a wood chisel....a hammer....an ice pick.....a broken bottle.... The knife was the INSTRUMENT, the controlling force ......a mentally imbalanced individual.

Rick · 30th June 2006, 08:10 PM

I've started a new thread about the disposition of our collections for I think this too is an interesting subject and deserves a thread of it's own .

Rick · 30th June 2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

I've just been watching the T.V. News..... Apparently ...even with the 'knife amnesty' ....23 people have died from Knife attacks (in G.B.) in the past 5 weeks, NOW people are saying the amnesty ,does and will, not work. Well, I think that we have concluded as much. My sympathies to all the families and friends of the victims. One case in particular stands out.....a man walking home with his girlfriend.... is fatally stabbed 7 times by a complete stranger with NO motive at all......and the perpetrator IS STILL AT LARGE.
This guy, (the murderer) must be some sort of psychopath....yes a knife was used....but if a knife was not available I am sure he would have used something else.....a wood chisel....a hammer....an ice pick.....a broken bottle.... The knife was the INSTRUMENT, the controlling force ......a mentally imbalanced individual.

Possibly they're not all really murders (some of them) but planned random asassinations to create a feeling of panic amongst the sheep .

Call me paranoid if you will .....

katana · 30th June 2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Possibly they're not all really murders (some of them) but planned random asassinations to create a feeling of panic amongst the sheep .

Call me paranoid if you will .....

No.....Conspiracy Theorist

MIND YOU ..it takes one to know one...

29th June 2006, 12:57 AM	#39
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	There used to be a horrendously strict weapon control in USSR: a hunting knife required a police permit. Well, anybody with a neuron in his brain had a home-made shiv, and kitchen knives were used widely. I have a book:" Russian Prison Knives": you should see what kinds of knives imprisoned criminals made in the GULAG! Last edited by Ian; 29th June 2006 at 04:24 AM. Reason: Inappropriate comment

29th June 2006, 04:03 AM	#40
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	more thoughts.... I think one of the main problems is trying to educate people who do not collect or who do not practice martial arts, that we (hopefully I can speak a little for all of us collectors/practioners) are not the ones out there committing violent crimes with our weapons. I have been having an OCD (obssesive compulsize disorder) couple of months buying edged stuff on ebay and was recently scolded (albeit lightly) on my shopping habits by one our secretaries who works with abused children through her church. She didn't understand that just because I buy all these vintage/antique knives, it doesn't mean that I am an advocate of violence. Her only point of reference was the violence in the history of the children she worked with and could only see the potential for violence in my acquisitions. It took me until today to articulate to her that people like me (us) weren't the problem. It is the people who are under great stress to just survive that has pushed them away from the social norms we all normally share (and yes there are the simply mis-wired individuals out there). What lawmakers are too naive or don't care to see (disregarding A. G. Maisey's lucid points on State, Control, and The Citizen) is that if you take away the knives, they will use sticks. Take away the sticks and they will use stones. As Rivkin expressed earlier: it's not the tool, it's the intent. As for the people who do partake in violent activties (outside the ring): my own personal equation for the ills of society (to over-simplify) goes like this: economic deprevation = social degeneration. In the end it's all about stress, and money, being the medium for much of our modern world, is the primary source of this (again: over-simplifing). Controlling weapons does nothing to solve the real problems. I have carried a knife on my person for the better part of 14 years and not once have I ever brandished it or threatened anyone with it, and I have been mugged (four dollars and a cigarette is not really worth fighting for) and have had someone threaten me with the threat of a firearm (never saw it - probably didn't have it). My use of the proverbial silver tongue has disarmed another on more than one occasion. The point is that I wish we could find a way to better express to people that we (collectors and practioners) are not the threat: Let us keep these things that speak to our soul for we will not abuse them, and the people that would abuse them, would abuse anything anyways. That's the source of my frustration in these issues..... And also, it does horify me that someone would make scrap metal out of someone else's cultural heritage (keep your treasures under the floorboards if you have to).

29th June 2006, 06:39 PM	#46
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IN THE USA THE PRESS AND LIBERALS HAVE CREATED A CLASS SYSTEM FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT VERY RICH OR FAMOUS. THEY HAVE USED THE MEDIA THEY CONTORL TO TELL US HOW BAD SOME GROUPS HAVE BEEN TREATED IN THE PAST WHILE TRYING TO SHAME OTHER GROUPS INTO LAYING DOWN AND BEING DESTROYED FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST. IT IS CALLED THE MINORITY PLAN AND ENCOURAGES HATRED, FEAR AND MISTRUST AMOUNG ALL THE CLASSES BELOW THE VERY RICH AND FAMOUS. WELFARE IS SET UP TO JUST KEEP YOU AFLOAT BUT ITS EASY FOR EVEN THE UNEDUCATED TO SEE THAT THEY HAVE NO FUTURE AND IT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF HARD WORK AND LUCK TO BREAK OUT AND BE SUCESSFUL. THE MEDIA AND LIBERALS TELL THEM ITS THE OTHER CLASSES FAULT SO YOU SHOULD PROTEST BY HAVING A RIOT AND LOOT AND BURN UP ALL THE BUSINESS IN YOUR NEBHORHOOD. NOTHING THE PRESS LIKES BETTER THAN A GOOD RIOT OR DISASTER AND ITS NOT THE POOR LOOTERS WHO GET THE BLAME ITS THE CLASS THAT HAPPENS TO BE IN THE MEDIA CROSS HAIRS ALL THE TIME. THIS SETS UP THE WORKING CLASS AND THE NON WORKING CLASS TO BE AGAINST EACH OTHER MAKEING IT EASIER TO CONTROL BOTH GROUPS. THOSE WHO THINK THEY ARE BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BY THE ENTIRE SOCIETY WILL TAKE THE WELFARE BUT HATE THE SYSTEM AND OFTEN TURN TO VIOLENCE AND CRIME TO GET EVEN WITH THE SYSTEM. THEY THINK THE WORKERS ARE FOOLS AND ENJOY TAKEING WHAT THEY WORK FOR AWAY FROM THEM. IN MY AREA WE HAVE MULTIPLE LOCAL PROBLEMS 1. ELITE POLITICIANS WHO ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN ENRICHING THEMSELVES AT EVERYONE ELSES EXPENSE. 2. MEDIA CONTROLLED BY THE VERY RICH WHO ALSO WORK WITH OR OWN THE POLITICIANS. 3.THE CLASS SYSTEM THEY HAVE SET UP AND THE HATE ,MISTRUST AND FEAR IT ENCOURAGES. 4. THE PRESS CONSTANTLY OPENS OLD WOUNDS AND MAKES THEM A DAY TO REMEMBER WHAT ONE GROUP DID TO THE OTHER GROUP ON THAT DATE 100 YEARS OR SO AGO SHOULD NEVER BE FORGOTTEN OR FORGIVEN. THEN THE LAWYERS JUMP IN FIND A DISGRUNTLED FAMILY MEMBER OR SURVIVIOR AND SUE EVERY ONE THEY CAN AND THE TAXPAYERS END UP PAYING THE SETTELMENT AND LAWYERS BILLS. THE TAXPAYERS HAVE MADE MULTI MILLIONARES OUT OF MANY LAWYERS AND MINORITY POLICEMEN AND DISGRUNTLED MINORITYS LOCALLY INSTEAD OF FIXING OUR CITYS PROBLEMS. 5.OUR BIG COMPANYS HIRE LAWYERS WHO TELL THEM HOW TO LEGALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR WORKERS AND GIVE THEMSELVES MILLIONS IN BOUNUS FOR THE BRILLIANT STRADEGY OF LAYING OFF HALF THE WORK FORCE. SENDING THE JOBS OVERSEAS OR ONLY LETTING THEIR CUSTOMERS TALK TO ANSWERING MACHINES AND OF COURSE LAYING OFF ANYONE 50 YEARS OLD AND NOT HIREING 50 YEARS OR OVER UNLESS ABSOLUTLY NECESSARY. THEY HOPE TO SET IT UP WHERE EMPLOYEES SHOULD FIND A NEW JOB EVERY 4.5 YEARS SO NONE WILL EVER BE VESTED TO DRAW RETIREMENT. THE CEO WHO CAN SUCESSFULLY DO THESE THINGS USUALLY PUTS A FEW 100 MILLION IN HIS BANK ACCOUNT. 5.OUR STATE LEADERS HAVE DECIDED THAT WE CAN GAMBLE OUR WAY TO PROSPERITY. WE NOW HAVE MORE GAMBELING CASINOS HERE THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY THEY ARE MAKEING A LOT OF MONEY BUT OUR TAX'S ,WATER BILLS AND EVERYTHING ARE GOING UP A LOT EVEN THOUGH WE WERE PROMISED THE GAMBELING MONEY WOULD NOT MAKE THAT NECESSARY. 6. AT THE CURRENT RATE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION TO THE AREA WE WILL BE THIRD WORLD AND SPEAKING SPANISH IN 10 YEARS IF THEY ALLOW US TO STAY HERE. 7. NOT ALL ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS COME HERE FOR THE OPORTUNITY TO WORK AND THEY ALSO TAKE GOOD JOBS NOT ONLY THOSE THE AMERICANS ARE TOO LAZY TO DO AND DON'T WANT. IT IS ALSO THE LAND OF GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY FOR CRIMINALS ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO THIRD WORLD COUNTRYS SO WE HAVE OUR LOCAL BAD GUYS AND MANY FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD ALSO. 8.CRIME IS SKYROCKETING, DRUG DEALING, GANGS FORIGN AND DOMESTIC,GAMBELING, BURGARLY, AND VIOLENT CRIMES SUCH AS MURDER ARE WAY UP. AND OF COURSE THE CITY NEEDS TO RAISE OUR TAXES SOME MORE BECAUSE WE NEED MORE POLICE AND SCHOOL TEACHERS AS USUAL. 8. BUT NEVER FEAR OUR LEADERS WILL FIX IT ALL BY TAKEING GUNS, KNIVES AND ANYTHING THAT MIGHT BE USED FOR SELF DEFENCE AWAY FROM THE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. THE CRIMINAL WILL STILL HAVE THEM AND THE VERY RICH AND FAMOUS WILL HAVE THEIR WELL ARMED SECURITY FORCES OR BODY GAURDS AND SPECIAL POLICE PROTECTION TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PROTECTED SO THEY CAN LOOK AFTER US. ONCE A BODY OF PEOPLE ARE GIVEN THE JOB OF MAKEING A LAW TO TAKE AWAY SOMETHING FROM THE LAW ABIDING THEY ARE NEVER SATISFIED AND WILL KEEP TAKEING MORE AWAY AND MAKEING MORE LAWS AFTER ALL THEY DON'T WANT TO LOSE THEIR JOBS. WHEN NATURAL RIGHTS BECOMES A PRIVILEGE THEN ONLY THE PRIVELEGED WILL HAVE THOSE RIGHTS! I AM SURE I COULD COME UP WITH MORE RANTS BUT THATS MORE THAN ENOUGH. Last edited by VANDOO; 29th June 2006 at 06:49 PM.

30th June 2006, 01:39 AM	#48
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	Divide and conquer? Yes. But divide and rule is perhaps the more correct dictum. There is no taking of control whilst the populace is otherwise occupied. That control is maintained by keeping the populace occupied with matters that prevent them from thinking about the management of their society by government. What Barry has described is exactly the practical application of the principle. However, whichever political party may appear to be managing government, that political party's leaders are themselves being managed by the people, groups of people, and organisations which are at the top of the societal tree. Anybody here remember Vietnam? Remember what happened to the Dow every time there were rumours of peace? And what happened after each major offensive? Where has the middle class in developed societies gone? Does the period during which the decline of this middle class has occurred correspond to the period during which western capital has transferred its manufacturing operations to China, its administrative processes to India and Singapore, and whatever other transferable processes it can identify to places where wage rates are very much below what the wage rates are in developed countries? What is the nature of the employment that remains available for the present and rising generations in developed countries? Blind Freddy can see that there is no longer the foundation in industry nor commerce which produced the middle class that arose following the industrial revolution. The wheel of history has turned and wealth, and along with it, position in society, is now in the process of polarising to the situation that was in place in Europe prior to the industrial revolution. Before this polarisation is complete, there will be a lot of very unhappy people in the populations of the developed countries. If the elite wish to have a reasonable chance of controlling these people , and of managing the economies of these countries, it is necessary for the populations of these countries to be re-engineered into docility and obediance. There are many tools that can be employed to achieve these ends, and one of these tools is the disarming of the populace. You cannot disarm any group of people that believes in the sanctity of weaponry, nor its necessity to maintain civilian life and protect personal property. Thus, where a society is already very stable and well controlled, as it is in Australia, you can immediately indoctrinate the community, commencing in school, with the belief that only sociopaths and criminals possess any form of weapon. Where a society is a little less well controlled, you need to create the conditions where people will believe in the lesser of two evils. By encouraging a proliferation of civilian weaponry in a society that already has severe social schism, and at the same time setting in place social policies that exacerbate that schism, ultimately you will produce a situation where murder and mayhem will become routine. At this point you offer the solution, and that solution will involve severe restrictions that would not be tolerated in a well ordered society. Those of us with an interest in weaponry are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. We probably all should have been born at least 100 years ago. We are dinosaurs, we all know what happened to the dinosaurs. But we are human dinosaurs, and as humans, we have the power of reason. We may not be able to stop the wheel of time from turning, but we can deduce what it may crush next, and we can step to one side. Along with our collections. It is important, I believe, to view this entire process with an appreciation of the time frame that could be involved. I think world population is due to peak somewhere within the next 50 years or so. If China continues development at its present rate it will dominate world trade, and by extension, world economics and military power, within 20 to 30 years. Probably the completion of US societal re-engineering cannot be seriously advanced within a time frame that will impact greatly upon anybody reading this. However, there is no doubt that in the more ordered societies of Western Europe, and in my own country, Australia, we can expect to see a continued truncation of civil liberties.Within my lifetime I expect to see many of my present "privileges" (in this country we do not have "rights") reduced or removed. My age is 65. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 30th June 2006 at 01:56 AM.

30th June 2006, 03:19 AM	#49
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	A request to all thread participants (but no one in particular)... It's inevitable that this topic will slide inexorably toward politics. However, let's all please stay away from polarizing the discussion with references to "liberal/conservative" or party politics. I know my request is a difficult one to adhere to, given the nature of the discussion, but none of us should be eager to see this thread deteriorate into political debate. I am also aware that I, myself, have made somewhat political comments on this thread. Its an interesting and relevant discussion to our forum and, well, I want to participate and see it continue. Let's try to keep the discussion objective and cool. I don't think any of the world's power elite post here, so we should be okay blaming them for everything.

28th June 2006, 09:05 PM	#31
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	This is where concerns of "freedom" get a little silly. I like to think we are not wild animals and do not need to walk around our environments with substitute claws and fangs. Some effort should be put into stopping this cultish side to nastiness {just cannot think of another term} I know bad things happen and there are indeed some very unpleasant people around. Hey, if I felt I needed or wanted one of these knives then I hope someone would take me to the doctor. Lets have a big shoot out and stab fest in the shopping mall, you just do not need it. I do not like the idea of going to the corner shop and feeling half of the safe looking customers are carrying weapons. What if I looked at you the wrong way or bumped into you or some other misunderstanding happened and arguing took place, could I rely on your responsibility. It is always someone else who is a crazy.

29th June 2006, 12:07 AM	#38
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,888	The point has been made that restrictive action taken by those in authority, is really about control. It is probably fair to assume that most people in the world today live in communities. The purpose of a community is to support and sustain the members of the community. The members of the community must submit to the level of control necessary to ensure that the community remains a viable entity. The viability of any community in the developed world today depends upon that community's continued economic viability. The economic viability of a community relies upon the members of that community being productive units who will direct their productive capacity towards the support of themselves and the community. If restrictive action is about control, and I personally believe that it is, it may be of benefit to all of us to try to come to some sort of understanding in respect of who gains the greatest benefit from that control. Does the greatest benefit accrue to the community member who is furthest down in the pecking order of the community, or does it accrue to the community member who is at the top of the pecking order? Since communities in the developed world are economic entities, is it not reasonable to expect to find that those at the top of the community pecking order, are also at the top of the economic pecking order? Has anybody noticed the increasing polarisation of wealth in our societies? Does anybody truly believe that our elected representatives are acting in the best interests of the majority of people who elected them? Or is it possible that those elected to govern us are in fact governing us in a fashion calculated to produce the greatest benefits for those in control of the economic wealth of the community? If this is so, then ask yourself, who really controls the community in which I live? Is it I and my neighbour through the power of our vote and our voice, or is it some unseen person or organisation? When we have lost all our rights, ( or , if you live in Australia, your privileges,) except those inalienable rights to be born, produce, consume, and die, we may console ourselves with the thought that as members of a community we have ensured the continuation of a system that on the whole has more to recommend it than its alternative. You thought this was all about taking away our toys? Well, it ain't. Its about the continuation of the human race. If a steamroller is coming down the road a smart man steps to one side, he does not try to stop it.

29th June 2006, 02:13 PM	#43
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Well said tc , They will still come up with the excuse that your home could be robbed thereby supplying criminals with weapons . I think at least one of us has had their collection stolen . I agree about economic despair; welfare was supposed to take care of that . In some cases welfare has actually exacerbated that problem . A few of us have taken notice of Alan's steamroller on the horizon ; most of us have not .

29th June 2006, 06:56 PM	#47
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Vandoo, from your observations, there indeed seems to be a DIVIDE AND CONQUER mentality.........and lets face it most Sovereign Countries, that have accumilated Empires, used this method to good effect. Create dis-harmony amongst the population...... and while they are arguing and fighting..... you quietly take control...

30th June 2006, 12:15 PM	#50
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	A. G. Maisey your comments are well founded, like you I believe that there are unseen forces whch are dictating a change in social order. What is trully worrying is that this phenomena appears to be Global, many of us, be it British, American, Australian etc. have noticed the same errotion of civil liberties and a gradual shift of power ( both social and economic) to a small minority within each country's population. The concerns of us (as collectors) regarding the possible reviews of 'knife law' seem to have only scratched the surface of a much larger problem.......the continuing loss of individual human rights. There is a social order, where individual rights are unheard of, where each member works and lives (unquestionably) for the benefit of the whole community, which sustains ONE individual. They are ANTS....... the question is not 'are we mice or men' but rather, are we Ants or men.....................

30th June 2006, 05:01 PM	#52
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Sad business... I think that will is the only weapon that man -or any other creature- needs. Knives or any tools are irrelevant; if one has the will to hurt or do damage, there's no law that can stop him/her. These ridiculous laws are indeed just methods of control, the problem is that the frogs don't want to accept what they should already know. The establishment is so well controlled that genuine concerns of liberty, rights, etc, are simply not addressed. The frogs know they're boiling, but they have no will to get out of the pan -and even worse, they lack the will to shut off the flame even when they can. What I find mind-boggling is just the huge number of people that are frogs in this world, and when other frogs try to jump out of their kettles and they bump ours, we get upset and start fights. The comments made by fellow forumites are right on the money. Another, part of the problem with the world, I think, is that it functions upon false assumptions. I believe there is no economic multiplier effect. For one place or person to prosper, another must decline. I also believe that the natural state of mankind is one of inequality. Equality can only be maintained artificially and to some cost by the community, and now -as has been said- the maintenance of that semblance of equality is being eroded and done away with. Sad...the wheel of time is indeed unstopable. But the false assumptions (including today's globalization/integration/polarization) may still be broken. About the Knife Amnesty law: I'm sorry for people of the UK, they're being tricked into destroying chunks of their history, and giving up some hard-earned rights. Right now in Canada, I still have my most of my rights (including that of collecting some artefacts once used as weapons) but fear-mongering regarding jumping frogs has made it harder to speak one's thoughts, and many rights will soon be reduced in the interest of "national security." Getting out of the way of the roller is only a temporary fix however...put enough people around it, and it'll stop. Hmm...anyone ever read Atlas Shrugged?

30th June 2006, 06:52 PM	#53
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	YES I HAVE READ ATLAS SHRUGGED BY AYN RAND IT IS A GOOD READ AS WELL AS EXPRESSING A PHILOSOPHY AND LIKE H.G. WELLS DID PREDICT SOME OF THE FUTURE CONSIDERING WHEN IT WAS WRITTEN. THE MAIN PROBLEMS WITH SOCALISM AND COMMUNISM IS THAT ALL PEOPLE ARE NOT ALIKE AND WHEN YOU REDUCE THE REWARDS TO THE SAME LEVEL FOR EVERYONE NO MATTER WHAT THE JOB OR HOW HARD YOU WORK OR HOW TALENTED THE INDIVIDUAL THEN MOST STOP TRYING. IF ALL YOU ARE PROVIDED BY YOUR KEEPERS IS THE SAME AS EVERYONE, A PLACE TO SLEEP A BOWL OF FOOD A FEW CLOTHES AND A JOB BASED ON WHAT THEY THINK YOU SHOULD DO, NOT ON YOUR TALENTS OR WANTS WHY DO ANY MORE WORK THAN YOU ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO. THE KEEPERS WHO CONTROL EVERYTHING LIVE THE GOOD VERY RICH LIFE AND COME DOWN VERY HARD ON ANYONE WHO DOSEN'T DO AS THEY ARE TOLD SO MANY EXAMPLES ARE MADE FOR MINOR INFRACTIONS. THE ONLY WAY THIS WOULD WORK FOR LONG IS IF THE MAJORITY ARE EDUCATED FROM BIRTH TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE TOLD WITHOUT REASONING IT OUT LOGICALLY AND KEPT FROM KNOWING WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON IN THE REST OF THE WORLD. PERHAPS YOU COULD KEEP THEM UNEDUCATED OR DRUGGED TO HAVE THE PERFECT ZOMBIE WORK FORCE, UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE KEEPERS, IN TODAYS WORLD ZOMBIES DON'T MAKE A VERY GOOD WORK FORCE NO MATTER HOW CHEAP THEY WORK. HUMANS ARE ALL WIRED TO SURVIVE AND AQUIRE THE THINGS WE INSTINTLY NEED FOR A GOOD LIFE, WE WANT TO HAVE A WIFE A FAMILY, FOOD,SHELTER, BELONGINGS AND FUN. SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE BORN WITH MORE TALENT AND DRIVE AND WILL GET BETTER JOBS AND MAKE BETTER DECISIONS THAN OTHERS. SOME WILL USE WHAT TALENTS THEY HAVE AND STILL HAVE MOST OF THE THINGS EVERYONE WANTS BUT NOTHING EXTRA AND BE VERY CONTENT AS THEY DID THE WORK THEMSELVES AND TAKE PRIDE IN THAT. THERE HAVE TO BE GOOD LAWMAKERS AS THAT IS WHAT KEEPS THOSE WHO ARE VERY POWERFUL FROM TAKEING WHAT THOSE WITH LESS TALENTS AND POWER HAVE WORKED FOR. THAT IS WHERE THE CHIEF PROBLEM WITH THE USA COMES IN WE NEED PEOPLE IN A POSITION OF POWER TO CONTROL THE GREED OF THOSE WITH LOTS OF MONEY AND POWER. BUT THE ONES WITH THE HUNGER TO TAKE IT ALL FOR THEMSELVES HAVE MOST OF THE POWER THIS IS THE CASE IN MANY OTHER COUNTRYS AS WELL. FROM WHAT I CAN SEE WHEN YOU GET SO MUCH MONEY AND POWER THAT IT DOSEN'T THRILL YOU OR MAKE YOU FEEL POWERFUL TO ADD SEVERAL BILLION DOLLARS TO YOUR PILE ANY MORE. THEN YOU LIKE TO SEE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY UNDER YOUR THUMB WITH NOTHING AND STRUGGLEING TO SURVIVE AND YOU CAN TAKE IT ALL AWAY AT WILL WHICH MAKES YOU FEEL BIG AGAIN. ITS CALLED BEING A DICTATOR BUT IS REFERED TO IN OTHER TERMS IN MANY COUNTRYS. JUST GUESSING ABOUT THE VERY POWERFUL THEY STAY BEHIND THE SCENES AND I AM CERTIANLY NOT ONE OF THEM SO MUST GO ON HISTORY AND WHAT I HAVE SEEN OVER THE YEARS. I HAD NOT PLANNED TO POST AGAIN ON THIS TOPIC BUT THE REFRENCE TO ATLAS SHRUGGED MADE ME DO IT

30th June 2006, 07:34 PM	#54
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	So in light of the different theories of where we're headed, what's everyone have planned for their collections. I went through a house fire over a year ago, caused by a smoking tenant, my family was not harmed (thank God) and for some uncanny reason my entire collection was spared damage, but I've downsized quite a bit after a move...when I saw the place up in flames I kissed everything goodbye but was suprised to be able to recover all my belongings, sooner or later the artifacts need to be preserved by the next generation, maybe move them on to close relatives and friends, also universities and museums I've worked with...

30th June 2006, 07:50 PM	#56
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	Mabagani et al , I seriously don't know what to do with most of mine ; a few might be museum worthy but only if I know that they would never be deacessioned ; if that's going to happen then I'll sell them myself . If I knew of my imminent demise I believe that I would offer some of them to fellow forum members who I know would respect them and keep them safe; I'm not saying for free ; more like for cost or possibly a little less . I would like to see my Moro stuff go back into that community to further enhance that culture from which so much has been stolen . A few pieces I would leave to my Son ; all in all I want to have these artifacts live on being appreciated rather than locked in a drawer to slowly rust in a museum . No joking please; I'm serious .

30th June 2006, 07:58 PM	#57
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	I've just been watching the T.V. News..... Apparently ...even with the 'knife amnesty' ....23 people have died from Knife attacks (in G.B.) in the past 5 weeks, NOW people are saying the amnesty ,does and will, not work. Well, I think that we have concluded as much. My sympathies to all the families and friends of the victims. One case in particular stands out.....a man walking home with his girlfriend.... is fatally stabbed 7 times by a complete stranger with NO motive at all......and the perpetrator IS STILL AT LARGE. This guy, (the murderer) must be some sort of psychopath....yes a knife was used....but if a knife was not available I am sure he would have used something else.....a wood chisel....a hammer....an ice pick.....a broken bottle.... The knife was the INSTRUMENT, the controlling force ......a mentally imbalanced individual.

30th June 2006, 08:10 PM	#58
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	I've started a new thread about the disposition of our collections for I think this too is an interesting subject and deserves a thread of it's own .

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