New Acquisition, Mandau, said to be 1800's

JoeCanada42 · 27th February 2023, 05:01 PM

I just heard on an episode of forged in fire with Klewangs
"when the Dutch colonial government was in Malaysia , they encountered and found the klewang so deadly they outlawed it before developing their own"

Ian thank you for your post on Dutch klewangs I found it very interesting. and it lead me the the post that included the pre regulation klewangs, thanks also Amuk Murugul whom shared that one.

kai · 27th February 2023, 06:26 PM

Well, Joe, please take every factual statement you hear on FIF with a huge chunk of salt if you may...

Malaysia derives from the British colonial sphere of influence - the Dutch did not enter there.

The Dutch klewang was never based on any indigenous blade. During the Aceh war(s) and resistance periods, Indonesian conscripts (mainly from the Moluccas and Madura IIRC) found the performance of the issued Dutch swords wanting, especially in close quarters - no big surprise there. Them resorting to local Aceh swords and other traditional blades initiated the development of the Dutch-Indo klewang.

These are thin and slender blades - you'd need to join at least 2 klewang blades to obtain a mandau blade. Thus, klewang blades are an unlikely source.

Have you followed up on Wilkinson and other British suppliers?

Another possibility might be modern Sunda smiths moving to Borneo and setting up shop there (most likely after independence and possibly transmigrasi).

Regards,
Kai

JoeCanada42 · 27th February 2023, 06:54 PM

Hi kai
concerning the FiF episode they did say it was a short lived Dutch venture.

Thanks again for the suggestion ,but I found it hard to find any info on British suppliers and on Wilkinson blades in the area. I will try researching again. I don't know about the other idea with the Sunda smiths.

Kai, can you say anything about the style handle? Iban or?
thanks

JoeCanada42 · 27th February 2023, 10:14 PM

I feel like people are holding out on me, or is it you want me to experience the fun of researching myself...lol... jk
anyways while researching Jian swords just now. I stumble upon a post with a anther ethno sword with a G.
and this sword has the notch like mine and the Tjikeroeh swords

Ian , whats the deal with dohon palay swords?

Thanks!

David · 28th February 2023, 07:50 PM

I'm not sure the "G" on this other sword has much connection to yours as it appears to be stand alone. Same with the coin. Though we might have difficulty reading it, your sword definitely has other letters marked there.
As Kai has already insinuated, you can pretty much dismiss anything the Forged in Fire guys have to say about S.E.A. weapons. They don't know jack about this stuff. For that matter, its a very bad show for blacksmithing technique as well. LOL!
I don't think anyone who has participated in this thread so far is holding back on you, but if i am not mistaken, there are members on this forum who have yet to comment who know quite a bit more about Dayak weapons.

JoeCanada42 · 1st March 2023, 06:00 AM

Thanks David,
I take all info with a grain of salt, and ya some of the forging I have seen on FiF is very questionable, to say the least .
as for the marks on my Iban swords blade I feel maybe there was one initial or symbol before the G., the remaining marks I would guess was 4 digits, a date...
some how only the G remains visible, which makes me think the markings may have been applied at different times.

Ian · 1st March 2023, 08:36 AM

Hi Joe,

That's a nice job you did in cleaning the blade. The letter G is clearly visible as well as parts of other letters (?) and numbers (?). One thing to consider is that the G does not seem to align with the numbers, which in turn do not align with themselves. This suggests to me that these were applied some time after the original blade was forged. They would have been added by using a separate die for each letter, with the die being struck into the cold steel. Thus, we may not be looking at a maker's mark but something else.

As for the dahong palay, that's a Filipino sword used by the Tagalog and Ilokano people of Luzon. Dahong palay means rice leaf, and the blade shape resembles a rice leaf. I don't think the "G" on the Filipino sword has any connection to your sword.

Ian.

27th February 2023, 10:14 PM	#4
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	I feel like people are holding out on me, or is it you want me to experience the fun of researching myself...lol... jk anyways while researching Jian swords just now. I stumble upon a post with a anther ethno sword with a G. and this sword has the notch like mine and the Tjikeroeh swords Ian , whats the deal with dohon palay swords? Thanks! Attached Images

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27th February 2023, 05:01 PM	#1
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	I just heard on an episode of forged in fire with Klewangs "when the Dutch colonial government was in Malaysia , they encountered and found the klewang so deadly they outlawed it before developing their own" Ian thank you for your post on Dutch klewangs I found it very interesting. and it lead me the the post that included the pre regulation klewangs, thanks also Amuk Murugul whom shared that one.

27th February 2023, 06:26 PM	#2
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Well, Joe, please take every factual statement you hear on FIF with a huge chunk of salt if you may... Malaysia derives from the British colonial sphere of influence - the Dutch did not enter there. The Dutch klewang was never based on any indigenous blade. During the Aceh war(s) and resistance periods, Indonesian conscripts (mainly from the Moluccas and Madura IIRC) found the performance of the issued Dutch swords wanting, especially in close quarters - no big surprise there. Them resorting to local Aceh swords and other traditional blades initiated the development of the Dutch-Indo klewang. These are thin and slender blades - you'd need to join at least 2 klewang blades to obtain a mandau blade. Thus, klewang blades are an unlikely source. Have you followed up on Wilkinson and other British suppliers? Another possibility might be modern Sunda smiths moving to Borneo and setting up shop there (most likely after independence and possibly transmigrasi). Regards, Kai

27th February 2023, 06:54 PM	#3
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Hi kai concerning the FiF episode they did say it was a short lived Dutch venture. Thanks again for the suggestion ,but I found it hard to find any info on British suppliers and on Wilkinson blades in the area. I will try researching again. I don't know about the other idea with the Sunda smiths. Kai, can you say anything about the style handle? Iban or? thanks

28th February 2023, 07:50 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,209	I'm not sure the "G" on this other sword has much connection to yours as it appears to be stand alone. Same with the coin. Though we might have difficulty reading it, your sword definitely has other letters marked there. As Kai has already insinuated, you can pretty much dismiss anything the Forged in Fire guys have to say about S.E.A. weapons. They don't know jack about this stuff. For that matter, its a very bad show for blacksmithing technique as well. LOL! I don't think anyone who has participated in this thread so far is holding back on you, but if i am not mistaken, there are members on this forum who have yet to comment who know quite a bit more about Dayak weapons.

1st March 2023, 06:00 AM	#6
JoeCanada42 Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Canada Posts: 259	Thanks David, I take all info with a grain of salt, and ya some of the forging I have seen on FiF is very questionable, to say the least . as for the marks on my Iban swords blade I feel maybe there was one initial or symbol before the G., the remaining marks I would guess was 4 digits, a date... some how only the G remains visible, which makes me think the markings may have been applied at different times.

1st March 2023, 08:36 AM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,360	Hi Joe, That's a nice job you did in cleaning the blade. The letter G is clearly visible as well as parts of other letters (?) and numbers (?). One thing to consider is that the G does not seem to align with the numbers, which in turn do not align with themselves. This suggests to me that these were applied some time after the original blade was forged. They would have been added by using a separate die for each letter, with the die being struck into the cold steel. Thus, we may not be looking at a maker's mark but something else. As for the dahong palay, that's a Filipino sword used by the Tagalog and Ilokano people of Luzon. Dahong palay means rice leaf, and the blade shape resembles a rice leaf. I don't think the "G" on the Filipino sword has any connection to your sword. Ian.