Wallachian Swords of the 15th Century: What Types?

[Evgeny_K]

Dear Teisani, thank you for very interesting hypothesis. So you think this sword is earlier than 15th century S-guard Hungarian sabres?

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Evgeny_K

Dear Teisani, thank you for very interesting hypothesis. So you think this sword is earlier than 15th century S-guard Hungarian sabres?

My guess is that it could be from the mid 1300s to the mid 1400s, an archaic form of the more familiar S-quillon sabres. But this is just a guess based solely on my above stated arguments. Do you have any idea if it was found north or south of Moldova?

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By the way, do you know where this one was found? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...2&postcount=15

[Teisani]

Oh, and a possible period depiction of a S-quilloned sabre can be found here:
https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...Capistrano.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...t%C3%A1ban.jpg

L'Aquila, Museo Nationale, Maestro di San Giovanni da Capistrano (Giovanni di Bartolomeo dell’Aquila), cc.1480-1485.
The four side panels represent scenes of the saint's life [counter-clockwise]: in the upper left panel, Holy Mass celebrated on the battle field in the presence of the Crusaders below it, the Battle of Belgrade, where the Crusaders fought against the Turks in the top right panel, a sermon given by St. John in L'Aquila, during which some possessed people were healed. in the background is the Cathedral of St. Maximus, as it would appear before the catastrophic earthquake of 1703 that destroyed it almost completely. in the lower right panel, the death of the saint. The panel, dated between 1480 and 1485 (and then just thirty years after the death of the saint) was first attributed to Sebastiano di Cola from Casentino; later on, to a "Maestro delle Storie di S. Giovanni da Capestrano", who also authored "St. Francis Receiving the Stigmata", stored in the same room of the museum. According to the latest studies, this Maestro should be identified with Giovanni di Bartolomeo from Aquila, as recorded in Naples by a notary deed of June 1448: this painter shows a Gothic formation in his meticulous attention to detail, and a Renaissance influence in the use of perspective and volumes.

Siege of Belgrade 1456, depiction from 1480-85. The Ottomans are depicted as having S-quilloned sabres, though single-handed and without pommels.

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

Oh, and a possible period depiction of a S-quilloned sabre can be found here:

Very interesting and not one I have seen before. Thanks for sharing so much in this excellent thread!

There are a number of artworks from around 1470-1510, from Italy, Austria, Hungary, and Slovakia, that show very well this distinctive Southeastern-European style of hilt, mostly on straight-bladed swords. The Austrian image database is a good resource for this:

https://www.imareal.sbg.ac.at/en/realonline/

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Reventlov

Very interesting and not one I have seen before. Thanks for sharing so much in this excellent thread
...

Glad you liked it, I found it by chance recently. If you have any other works of art in mind, please feel free to post them. Even though the topic is "Wallachian swords of the 15th century ", I believe it is important to understand what was available in geographically close regions, and even in other time periods to give context, especially considering the scarcity of period sources of on the actual topic. My only request is to post the source site for the picture/info if possible.

[Teisani]

Ok, back to Wallachian stuff. Here are some more pictures of the 2 pages (143 and 146) depicting the Battle of Posada 1330 from the Chronicon Pictum. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Battle1330.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...dai_csata1.JPG
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...dai_csata2.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:V...cle_Posada.jpg


Chronicon Pictum (Page 144) - King Charles receives the envoy of Voivode Basarab In the initial "N", on the left, the envoy hands over a letter from Voivode Basarab to King Charles Robert. The King is in armor, the envoy has a long hair, is in a long Cuman dress, with a helmet in his left hand.

Basarab sent honorable messengers to the king and said: "You have toiled, my lord the king, with gathering an army: for that I give seven thousand silver marks as compensation for your toil. I also hand over Szörény to you in peace with all the ingredients, which you captured by force; moreover, I will faithfully pay the tribute every year, which I owe to your crown, and I will also send one of my sons to your court, at your expense, with my money and expenses: just return in peace and do not put your men in danger, because if you come further, you will not avoid danger." Upon hearing this, the king with an arrogant mind said these words to the messengers: "Tell Basarab: he is the shepherd of my sheep; I will pull him out of his hiding place by his beard!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroni...ét_fogadja.jpg

And one from Johannes de Thurocz's Chronica Hungarorum (1488)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...ungarorum).jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...a_Thuroczy.jpg

Notes:
1 - according to wiki, the Chronicon Pictum was written between 15th of May 1358 and 1370-73. So the last pages, those depicting the Battle of Posada, where made during the early 1370s.
2 - most Wallachians are depicted as wearing sheep skin hats and coats, and having long dark hair. Othersare very Cuman-like in appearance, might actually be Cumans (like Basarab's envoy). Even the sheep-skin wearing individuals are using recurve bows.

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Evgeny_K

...So you think this sword is earlier than 15th century S-guard Hungarian sabres?

I just noticed that almost all the swords and sabres depicted in the Chronicon Pictum have long handles, which makes me wonder just how accurate are these representations. Surely not all swords of that period where two-handed.

[Teisani]

Swords of Stephen III the Great/Ştefan al III-lea cel Mare of Moldova (born 1438-39, ruled 1457–1504).

A nice article by Radu Oltean can be found here: http://art-historia.blogspot.com/202...-istanbul.html

About the sword of Stephen in Istanbul

Some thoughts about the swords of "Stephen the Great" from Istanbul, after browsing the book by Mr. Andrei Adrian Rusu, "Stephan the Great and the Moldavians of his time". But also some personal opinions, settled over time.
The weapons used by Moldovans in the 15th century were overwhelmingly imported. The vast majority from the Saxon cities, Brașov, Sibiu, Bistrița. For these cities, the export of weapons to Moldova was one of the main sources of income. However, certain more special weapons were brought even further, from Germany or Italy. And not just weapons. The study of archaeological findings suggests that all the knives or razors discovered in archaeological excavations in Moldova are imported. It is estimated that over 50% of weaponry of any kind was imported, especially high-performance weapons involving special technology or steels. Also, much of the bows and arrows were imported from the Saxon cities. The few craftsmen from Moldova that we know about were all foreigners, such as the bow maker from Suceava, a Saxon (his tombstone was preserved).

But not only the weapons but also most of the tools were all brought from Transylvania: awls, saws, axes, beards, then locks, keys, hinges, etc. Moldova had no iron. Who would have made high-performance weapons in Moldova? Crossbows, swords of good steel...Not to mention chain mail. Moldova did not have cities like those in Transylvania or Poland where there were guilds producing metal objects, a metallurgical industry that required high technological knowledge. And guilds to qualify craftsmen to high standards.

Another important source of weapons was wars. Many other weapons were obtained as spoils from battles, kept in the lord's arsenal and later given to the "braves". However, it is very likely that there were numerous repair workshops in Moldova.

Swords were weapons that not everyone had access to. They were expensive weapons and (although apparently simple) difficult to produce. The steel had to be of good quality. The rarity of swords and swords from medieval Moldova is supported by both sources and archaeological discoveries. And all the few discovered are from before the era of Ștefan, these are swords from the end of the 14th century, the beginning of the 15th.

The swords of Istanbul are of German origin. There is an Ottoman inventory of the swords looted from Suceava by Suleiman the Magnificent which names them very clearly: "German swords, narrow swords, with a sharp point" (approximate translation from Turkish). Western specialists, emotionally and patriotically uninvolved (such as the British military historian David Nicolle) have opined that all the Istanbul swords come from the same source (as production) and are of a characteristic German type and only the knobs of two of them, one being the one with inscription, are local products, added in Moldova. David Nicolle is the first to suggest that the guns could have been imported in pieces (separate blade, separate guard, etc.) and assembled in a local workshop. The silver thread on the sword hilt with the inscribed button was also added locally.

All the Istanbul swords (there are 3) are the same length, suggesting that they belonged to the same person. A prince did not have "one sword" but most likely a group of identical weapons. When you ordered, you didn't order one, but 10. The three swords were, as a model, an outdated one for Stephen's era. It is true that on the button with Slavonic inscription a Ștefan, the "gospodar" (ruler) of Moldova is mentioned". But before Stephen the Great, there were two "masters" with the name Stephen, who could rather be the ones referred to by the inscription on the button.
Stephen I (1394-1399) and Stephen II (1433-1435/1442-1447). Stephen the Great is Stephen III. The swords were looted together with the entire royal treasury from Suceava Citadel by Suleiman the Magnificent during the campaign to punish Petru Rareș (1538).

Adrian Andrei Rusu suggests that the sources that mention "Moldovan" or "Wallachian" weapons refer to the hand of the one who used the weapon, not to the craftsman who made it.

In short. Swords were not made in Moldova. There could be workshops to adapt, complete, repair them. Specialized craftsmen who came to Moldova to "sharpen" weapons are attested from Brașov. So even the blade sharpeners were "imported". The swords in Istambul are produced in a German workshop sometime in the early 15th century. They most likely belonged to one of the two Ștefan lords who preceded "the Great".

[Teisani]

And few more photos:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...4&postcount=16
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.30137.html
https://sword-site.com/thread/769/sw...t-iii-moldavia

[Teisani]

Since I don't know much about medieval European swords, would like to ask fellow forum members, what is your opinion on the Moldovan swords at the Topkapi palace(posted earlier), what period, what type, what manufacture...?

[Teisani]

Tomb effigy of Wallachian boyar, Mateiaș Postelnicul died at the age of 17 in 1652 - son of Udriște Năsturel and Maria Corbeanu, adopted by his uncle, Wallachian ruler Matei Basarab (born circa 1588, ruled 1632 - 1654). It formerly resided at the Târgovişte monastery, Wallachia. It represents a prince in the characteristic costume of the 17th century, dressed in a caftan finished with buttons up to the chest and fastened in the middle with a belt, and above a cloak with a collar, turned over the shoulders and with sleeves. The details of the ornamentation on the chest of the caftan are similar to the golden thread coils found in the tomb itself in 1965. Things aren't certain, but the theory goes that it was commisioned in 1652 by Matei Basarab, from a master named Elias Nicolai that was from Sibiu, Transylvania. Nicolai also likely made the voivode's effigy (1654) and that of his wife's (1653). Basarab's first effigy was destroyed in the seimen & dorobanţ revolt in 1655. A second effigy was commisioned by voivode Constantin Şerban from the same Elias Nicolai (according to documents in Cluj, Transylvania). Howevert it was only installed only in 1658 at Arnota monastery, Wallachia, when Basarab's body was moved there from Târgovişte by Mihnea III Radu (according to Matei basarab's wishes).
http://clasate.cimec.ro/Detaliu.asp?...0febf1a2c2775e
http://galeriaportretelor.ro/item/matei-basarab-9/
http://galeriaportretelor.ro/item/matei-basarab/

The primay source for this info is "Memory from the past, display for the future - early modern funeral monuments from the Transylvanian principality by Dóra Mérai (2017)". An excelent resource!

Notes: although very deteriorated, one can see the sabre at his side, and his typical for the time clothing.

[Reventlov]

Originally Posted by Teisani

Since I don't know much about medieval European swords, would like to ask fellow forum members, what is your opinion on the Moldovan swords at the Topkapi palace(posted earlier), what period, what type, what manufacture...?

I can comment on this, and share more of the information I have collected on the interesting features that appear in late medieval swords from Southeastern Europe... maybe in a new thread to focus on this earlier time period, but with wider geographic view?

[Teisani]

Originally Posted by Reventlov

...maybe in a new thread to focus on this earlier time period, but with wider geographic view?

Sounds great!