Two Kilij for comments

[TVV]

I suspect the inspiration for the etching came from signs, given to members of the Bulgarian Militia after the war. Not sure, but I suspect there was similar Russian insignia, on which the Bulgarian was based. The cross over a crescent is also a symbol of the victory in the 1877-78 Russo-Turkish War. The blade may be an authentic old blade, which has been "enhanced" in this manner and put into new, inaccurate dress.

[werecow]

Hah, that definitely looks familiar! Funny... I assumed that cross over crescent to be a combination of a cross and an anchor, as in naval markings (especially since the blade is also blued).

[Richard G]

i would venture that the smaller of the two originally posted by ASPaulding may well be Egyptian.
Regards
Richard

[werecow]

Originally Posted by Richard G

i would venture that the smaller of the two originally posted by ASPaulding may well be Egyptian.
Regards
Richard

Interesting! What distinguishes the Egyptian ones from the rest?

[Richard G]

I'm sorry, I did write a reply, but it did not want to submit, and now I've lost it.
Will try again later.
Regards
Richard

[werecow]

No worries, no hurries. But I'd appreciate that kind of knowledge.

[werecow]

Originally Posted by ASPaulding

My friend that speaks Arabic translated a few words on mine. He made out three names. Adam, Joseph and Malek.

Just to add, an Iranian friend of mine says:

It's difficult to recognize any word in this one, except for the one on the left hand side which I think is Allah (God)

based on the attached image.

[werecow]

Very excited today since I managed to get a hold of a pala that is very similar to the T-section one in the OP. I've been wanting one of these for many years.

I also snagged a rather rusty (more so than the picture suggests) and slightly bent Persian quaddara (quadara?) that will be a fun cleanup project at some point.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by ariel

There is a date within the cartouch: 1264 H. It corresponds to 1877-8 Gregorian.
Simple fighting Kilijes ( Palas) from the last years of the Ottoman Empire.
Very nice set.

The Ottoman (Turkish) Empire lasted thru WW1, until 1922, the 'last years' are still fairly recent .

[serdar]

[QUOTE=ASPaulding;276364]


Translate of that kilij cartouche: Owner and possessor Jusuf year 1264 hijri.
There is a word before Jusuf but is not clear.

You have two nice kilij’s.


The one with text is from mid 19 century.

But other one blade maybe is not a kilij blade (it is kilij sword, but maybe blade is european and reshaped, but i looked closely it doesent seem to be reshaped), im not sure, neither would be possible to conclude from pictures, no one can do that, but to me it looks like older blade, that profile is not a T like on other but more shalow fuller fat back one, and there is a eye lash mark, but i dont know, to me it looks like older blade, but that can be determined only when you take the sword in hands.

But other thing, why everyone in europe adress to 19 century kilij as a pala?
I have come in contact with two types of something that is called a pala.
In balkan, in Montenegro turkish armies were readily defeated over the course of centuries, and there is a lot of ottoman weapons as a consecuence, in montenegro there is a sword with yatagan look but has no ears and has a straight blade, i have specimens from my family that are one from 17 century and other from 18 century, im fortunate to have two examples, as they are extremly rare.

Other type of pala is a sword like a karabela but it isnt, it has a karabela like handle or a pistol like handle, crossguard is bent to the blade, and blade is little shorter but more straight and wide, there are two examples in montenegro museums, they are very very rare.

Those two are only “pala” swords that are in old books from balkan, by old books i mean manuacripts with drawings from 18/19 century, from the people that witnessed battles and participated in them.

In balkan, pala swords are called gadara, it means a nasty thing, i dont know if it comes from persian gaddare, but some swords do look like ottoman version of gaddare.

Allso there is a drawing of Montenegro pala sword in bosnian book from vejsil curcic.

My picture in the midle ottoman pala sword captured in montenegro begining of 18 century, right to it ottoman naval yatagan sword allso montenegro begining of 18 century, left is a yatagan sword also from montenegro end of 18 century from battle.

Picture of pala swords from web.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by ASPaulding

Thank you all for your feedback. The only question I have is about the grip material? And on the scabbord, what are the little springs and what is the purpose? Thanks

That scabard and kilij look like bosnian made, that sthitching is called turkish zipper, i never hear of ladders?
But have in mind that turkish zipper or what ever is modern name, in old books i neber came acros some name for that stitching, it iis just that a stitching.