Hunting Tulwar (Tulwar Shikargah)

Norman McCormick · 14th February 2022, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

Thankyou Norman

Would you mind if I include your shield in my article?

Cheers Cathey

Hi Cathey,
Absolutely no problem, if you need better/different images just let me know.
My Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 14th February 2022, 06:34 PM

One thing I think being overlooked is the fact that many animals, birds and other fauna were much admired in Mughal courts as seen in cases with the Mughal emperor Akbar (16th c.). The Mughals were much enamored and influenced by Persian poetry along of course with most everything Persian.

With this, depictions of various animals were used in art metaphorically and allegorically. Notice in these scenes, the animals are in various combative situations with each other, or in some cases unarmed humans are involved.

Akbar was intrigued by cheetahs, and actually captured many with the intent of training them for the hunt. Elephants obviously were used in warfare and hunting.

The tiger is much admired, and feared, and Tipu Sultan was well known with the sobriquet "The Lion of Mysore". His regalia was of course heavily decorated with bubris (tiger stripes) The symbol known as the cintamani
of Timur from whom the Mughal dynasty derived is comprised of lines for the tiger and spots for the cheetah.

Tipu was also known for using metaphor such as a tiger attacking a European in artistic creations, symbolizing his power defeating them.

It seems that it is well represented that shamshirs and tulwars were indeed used in the hunt, however these blades and weaponry highly adorned with various animals appoear to be more toward Mughal admiration of them and perhaps in cases used metaphorically.

In this blade example, we see the individuals apparently training or attempting to control the elephants, which of course was normal as the elephants were used in hunting. The threat of attack by tigers on hunting parties was of course well known.

These seem the more esoteric aspects of these arms worthy of further note here.

Question: are there any examples of these 'hunting' arms which actually show men with weapons hunting the animals? As far as I have seen the depictions of these events are typically in miniatures and similar art.

fernando · 14th February 2022, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Notice in these scenes, the animals are in various combative situations with each other, or in some cases unarmed humans are involved...

I have noticed that, but i thought; Jim will no doubt approach that, with all his authority ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

: ... are there any examples of these 'hunting' arms which actually show men with weapons hunting the animals ? ... As far as I have seen the depictions of these events are typically in miniatures and similar art.

You are right. I do have paintings with such motifs but, not being weapons, they don't fit within the subject.

mariusgmioc · 14th February 2022, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Question: are there any examples of these 'hunting' arms which actually show men with weapons hunting the animals? As far as I have seen the depictions of these events are typically in miniatures and similar art.

Definitely there are!

I had a couple of 19th century miniatures depicting hunting scenes as you have seen but I have also seen some hunting scenes in silver repousse and carved in stone.
I also have a 19-20th century presentation dagger with a very well made high relief engraved koftgari hunting scene.

Jim McDougall · 15th February 2022, 12:00 AM

As they say in these parts in Texas, 'well....there ya go!'
Thank you very much Marius!
So we know that actual HUNT scenes are on various items of material culture in addition to the miniatures, to include daggers.
Thanks for the most kind note Fernando

. The art of course depicts the hunt, and using swords, but as far as I have seen, no swords with said scenes.

fernando · 15th February 2022, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Question: are there any examples of these 'hunting' arms which actually show men with weapons hunting the animals? ...

Apparently very hard to find, Jim; go figure why

.
Here is one, for a change; although with engravings rather poorer by far than those in Cathey's sword.

.

Jim McDougall · 15th February 2022, 08:51 PM

Very impressive indeed, and the panels with scenes seem OK, I have a hard time gauging from photos the quality. The overall quality seems impressive for what these are. In my opinion, based on what I have learned from others who have deeply studied Indian arms, these are most likely diplomatic or court type swords, but there lingers the potential number which were likely made as souvenirs hawked at durbars.

My comments on the examples of these swords with 'hunt scenes' should have noted, 'I personally have not seen such scenes on sword blades,but have seen the array of animal images'.
In the noteworthy quip of an esteemed colleague, "a sword with floral motif engraved on its blade, does not mean it was carried by a gardener!"

Here it seems the hunt is carried out with lances and bow and arrow, which seem more feasible weapons, while the sword (and katar) are more likely for the 'closure', as the prey is surrounded. The miniatures depicting the sword in use was more of a heroic analogy it would seem, but not saying not done with actual combat weapons.

It is interesting to see the often elaborate attention given to blades used in European hunting, which is of course much like the context of India and other cultures in its status oriented nature.

Actually the use of motifs on the European hunting hangers often had to do with various regalia and talismanic devices and symbology. The talismanic part of the motif would suggest that the dangers inherent in the hunt were of concern, and there is the prospect of invocation for success.

While clearly these cannot be equated with the scenes on these blades, it seems notable of the importance of the hunt in most cultures.

David R · 15th February 2022, 10:03 PM

Hunting scenes on aristocratic weaponry go back a long long way!

fernando · 16th February 2022, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... Here it seems the hunt is carried out with lances and bow and arrow ...

... and a firearm may also be seen; an interesting detail.

fernando · 16th February 2022, 04:49 PM

Speaking of Cathey's concerns that there are a great deal of images out there but not so many (supporting) texts, here is a beautiful katar with a rather comprehensive description.
I will call this link a courtesy of member Runjeet Singh, as i spotted this example in an Indian 'blog' where he signs the post. I am certain Runjeet would have certainly posted such info in here; only that he has been absent from the forum for the last few months.

https://hinducosmos.tumblr.com/post/...an-india-circa

.

Cathey · 17th February 2022, 01:28 AM

Hi Guys

Actually, it was Runjeet Singh (a fellow member of the Heritage Arms Society) that recently corrected me in relation to this sword and advised that it is a hunting sword (Shikargah) and was as the name suggests used for hunting. Runjeet has supplied some references already, however as you can see there are numerous examples out there, but detailed information is far less numerous.

The references I have found at this early stage are:
ALEXANDER David G. Islamic Arms and Armor in the Metropolitan Museum of Art Pp 219
BLACKMORE, Howard L. Hunting Weapons from the Middle Ages to the Twentieth Century Pp 552-553
W. G. Archer, Indian Painting in Bundi and Kotah (London, 195 9), Pls. 22, 31
EGERTON, WIBRAHIM Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms Nepal, Burma, Thailand Malaya Pp131, 132
FIGIEL, Leo S. The Dr. Leon S. Figiel Collection of Mogul Arms August 24th 1998 pp 18-19
FIGIEL Leo S. M.D. On Damascus Steel Pp 60-61
HENDLEY, Thomas Holbein Damascening on Steel Or Iron as Practise PP (II) Plate 1
HENDLEY Thomas H Memorials of the Jeyppore Exhibition 1883 Vol 1 PP 10, 11, Plate X
Nick Evangelista: The encyclopedia of the sword, published by Greenwood Publishing Group, 1995, page 537
PANT, Gayatri Nath INDIAN ARMS AND ARMOUR Volume II (Swords and Daggers) Pp 76, 78, Plate XV, Plate XVII
OSBORNE W. G. The Court and Camp of Runjeet Sing (London, 1840), p. 183.
TIRRI Anthony C Islamic Weapons Pp 207, pp 324
RICKETTS, Howard and Philipe Missillier. SPLENDOUR DES ARMES ORIENTALES Pp 125
REDDY Ravinda Arms & Armour of India, Nepal & Sri Lanka Pp 105, 354,355
STONE-G-C-Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms & Armour Pp 552-553

I now have about 8 additional books on order, one devoted to Islamic Hunting Arms so hopefully one of these will help. If anyone stumbles on anything else, please let me know.

Cheers Cathey

14th February 2022, 06:34 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	One thing I think being overlooked is the fact that many animals, birds and other fauna were much admired in Mughal courts as seen in cases with the Mughal emperor Akbar (16th c.). The Mughals were much enamored and influenced by Persian poetry along of course with most everything Persian. With this, depictions of various animals were used in art metaphorically and allegorically. Notice in these scenes, the animals are in various combative situations with each other, or in some cases unarmed humans are involved. Akbar was intrigued by cheetahs, and actually captured many with the intent of training them for the hunt. Elephants obviously were used in warfare and hunting. The tiger is much admired, and feared, and Tipu Sultan was well known with the sobriquet "The Lion of Mysore". His regalia was of course heavily decorated with bubris (tiger stripes) The symbol known as the cintamani of Timur from whom the Mughal dynasty derived is comprised of lines for the tiger and spots for the cheetah. Tipu was also known for using metaphor such as a tiger attacking a European in artistic creations, symbolizing his power defeating them. It seems that it is well represented that shamshirs and tulwars were indeed used in the hunt, however these blades and weaponry highly adorned with various animals appoear to be more toward Mughal admiration of them and perhaps in cases used metaphorically. In this blade example, we see the individuals apparently training or attempting to control the elephants, which of course was normal as the elephants were used in hunting. The threat of attack by tigers on hunting parties was of course well known. These seem the more esoteric aspects of these arms worthy of further note here. Question: are there any examples of these 'hunting' arms which actually show men with weapons hunting the animals? As far as I have seen the depictions of these events are typically in miniatures and similar art. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 14th February 2022 at 07:44 PM.

15th February 2022, 10:03 PM	#8
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,079	Hunting scenes on aristocratic weaponry go back a long long way! Attached Images

16th February 2022, 04:49 PM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Texts Speaking of Cathey's concerns that there are a great deal of images out there but not so many (supporting) texts, here is a beautiful katar with a rather comprehensive description. I will call this link a courtesy of member Runjeet Singh, as i spotted this example in an Indian 'blog' where he signs the post. I am certain Runjeet would have certainly posted such info in here; only that he has been absent from the forum for the last few months. https://hinducosmos.tumblr.com/post/...an-india-circa . Attached Images

17th February 2022, 01:28 AM	#11
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 282	Shikargah Tulwar Hi Guys Actually, it was Runjeet Singh (a fellow member of the Heritage Arms Society) that recently corrected me in relation to this sword and advised that it is a hunting sword (Shikargah) and was as the name suggests used for hunting. Runjeet has supplied some references already, however as you can see there are numerous examples out there, but detailed information is far less numerous. The references I have found at this early stage are: ALEXANDER David G. Islamic Arms and Armor in the Metropolitan Museum of Art Pp 219 BLACKMORE, Howard L. Hunting Weapons from the Middle Ages to the Twentieth Century Pp 552-553 W. G. Archer, Indian Painting in Bundi and Kotah (London, 195 9), Pls. 22, 31 EGERTON, WIBRAHIM Illustrated Handbook of Indian Arms Nepal, Burma, Thailand Malaya Pp131, 132 FIGIEL, Leo S. The Dr. Leon S. Figiel Collection of Mogul Arms August 24th 1998 pp 18-19 FIGIEL Leo S. M.D. On Damascus Steel Pp 60-61 HENDLEY, Thomas Holbein Damascening on Steel Or Iron as Practise PP (II) Plate 1 HENDLEY Thomas H Memorials of the Jeyppore Exhibition 1883 Vol 1 PP 10, 11, Plate X Nick Evangelista: The encyclopedia of the sword, published by Greenwood Publishing Group, 1995, page 537 PANT, Gayatri Nath INDIAN ARMS AND ARMOUR Volume II (Swords and Daggers) Pp 76, 78, Plate XV, Plate XVII OSBORNE W. G. The Court and Camp of Runjeet Sing (London, 1840), p. 183. TIRRI Anthony C Islamic Weapons Pp 207, pp 324 RICKETTS, Howard and Philipe Missillier. SPLENDOUR DES ARMES ORIENTALES Pp 125 REDDY Ravinda Arms & Armour of India, Nepal & Sri Lanka Pp 105, 354,355 STONE-G-C-Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms & Armour Pp 552-553 I now have about 8 additional books on order, one devoted to Islamic Hunting Arms so hopefully one of these will help. If anyone stumbles on anything else, please let me know. Cheers Cathey

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15th February 2022, 12:00 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	As they say in these parts in Texas, 'well....there ya go!' Thank you very much Marius! So we know that actual HUNT scenes are on various items of material culture in addition to the miniatures, to include daggers. Thanks for the most kind note Fernando . The art of course depicts the hunt, and using swords, but as far as I have seen, no swords with said scenes.

15th February 2022, 08:51 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	Very impressive indeed, and the panels with scenes seem OK, I have a hard time gauging from photos the quality. The overall quality seems impressive for what these are. In my opinion, based on what I have learned from others who have deeply studied Indian arms, these are most likely diplomatic or court type swords, but there lingers the potential number which were likely made as souvenirs hawked at durbars. My comments on the examples of these swords with 'hunt scenes' should have noted, 'I personally have not seen such scenes on sword blades,but have seen the array of animal images'. In the noteworthy quip of an esteemed colleague, "a sword with floral motif engraved on its blade, does not mean it was carried by a gardener!" Here it seems the hunt is carried out with lances and bow and arrow, which seem more feasible weapons, while the sword (and katar) are more likely for the 'closure', as the prey is surrounded. The miniatures depicting the sword in use was more of a heroic analogy it would seem, but not saying not done with actual combat weapons. It is interesting to see the often elaborate attention given to blades used in European hunting, which is of course much like the context of India and other cultures in its status oriented nature. Actually the use of motifs on the European hunting hangers often had to do with various regalia and talismanic devices and symbology. The talismanic part of the motif would suggest that the dangers inherent in the hunt were of concern, and there is the prospect of invocation for success. While clearly these cannot be equated with the scenes on these blades, it seems notable of the importance of the hunt in most cultures.