Filipino cannons

Kubur · 24th March 2021, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbleed

They both exhibit an interesting break action design. And both are made of older bronze muzzle loading guns.

The other gun seems to be a modified lantaka that was adjusted to accept a 1” (Nordenfelt?) round.

Hi Peter,

Are you sure that they were muzzle loading guns? and not breech-loading swivel guns? It is just a question, I know nothing about these cannons.

And are you sure that the second one is a modified lantaka and not an old Portuguese cannon? I wonder if the lantaka were local copies of Portuguese cannons? Close photos would be good.

Kubur

Battara · 25th March 2021, 12:09 AM

I agree with the call for close ups. They don't look like traditional antique lantaks to me, but more late 19thc - early 20thc. IF the second one is an old lantaka, it is such that the lantaka was modified to work on a rail.

pbleed · 25th March 2021, 06:26 PM

I appreciate the responses that have been offered. Thank you and please forgive my ham-handed attempts at communication.
I also failed to communicated in my initial post that these are MODIFIED guns that were altered to make them BREECH LOADERS. I think the smaller gun started as a Spanish mountain gun. The other one looks like a "lantaka", but I wish there was a grand synthesis of those guns. Apparently there isn't one.
Both are mounted on large - but movable - wooden bases. They are absolutely NOT gunwale sections. They look to me like man-handles field artillery.
These guns are both BREAK ACTION breech loaders that were fitted in iron frames that let them pivot open and be firmly closed when they pivoted down. I was hoping to find some precedent for that design somewhere in Asia. More than anything they look to me like BIG shotguns

Edster · 25th March 2021, 07:23 PM

Are the barrels rifled? They may be ships signal guns.

Ed

pbleed · 25th March 2021, 08:19 PM

Indeed they are NOT rifled. There isn't even a distinct shell chamber so the could be anything. They were brought home by a decorated combat officer with the Philippine Constabulary. Why couldn't they be artillery pieces?

Rick · 25th March 2021, 11:22 PM

The wood mountings make absolutely no sense to me; they cannot be elevated or depressed. Might they be for display or perhaps they were fitted to some sort of carriage and those were removed to facilitate easier shipping back to the States.

The one on the left looks like it was modified to take a rimmed cartridge; 37mm cartridge is what was used as an anti-tank round; I can't imagine putting a round that size in a gun approximately 14.5 inches long. Then again...
Edited to add link:
http://www.landships.info/landships/...chutz_M15.html
The Lantaka I can't tell about the breech as the photo you posted does not really show the rear, or breech end of the barrel clearly.

pbleed · 26th March 2021, 02:12 AM

Rick,
Thank you for your comments. You are correct is saying that these tubes do not have direct means of elevation. Perhaps they were used with an element that ain't there now. I also wonder if they were intended for direct fire from a prepared situation much as coehorn mortars were, but instead of shooting a "up" they may have been intended to for direct, short range bombard
Both of these guns had the breech plate set into and all the way through the base so that they have a large bolt/nut protruding from the base. They do NOT sit comfortably on a hard flat surface.
The 37mm round you showed us is one of the enhanced anti-tank rounds. The first generation 37's - as used in Manchuria and them thru out WW1 - were simply cylinders.
Please excuse the shortcomings of these images of what I will call the "Lantaka"
First the muzzle. Note that it is essentially flat, but that it has a cast front site.
Next consider the breech from the top. My interpretation is that instead of simply cutting the end of the barrel off, the shortening was done to leave a "barrel extension" that would lock into the breech plate. In this view the gun is closed with a replacement brass pin since the original ain't there.
Okay, now take a look down the barrel. Note the cartridge extraction system.
Next look at the rear of the gun. Two things catch my eye. First, look at the feature at the extreme back end of the barrel extension. Do you see it? I have to wonder/guess that this may somehow be a remnant of the touch hole of the original "uncut" lantaka. It is easier to also see that this gun has a forges iron ring driven into the base. Clearly, it could have been tied down in position. There appears to have been another of these fixtures on the other side of the rear surface. There appear to have been a pair of them in the front of the base as well, but they ain't there now.

fernando · 27th March 2021, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

...I wonder if the lantaka were local copies of Portuguese cannons? ...

No, rather the other way round. The Portuguese later reproduced them ... eventually for local trade, and also as a currency means.

fernando · 27th March 2021, 06:50 PM

Peter, may i assume that the (non lantaka) gun also has an extraction system ?
Could you then shows a photo taken from its back so that we may discern how that system works; visibly not like the one in the lantaka ...

25th March 2021, 06:26 PM	#3
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	I appreciate the responses that have been offered. Thank you and please forgive my ham-handed attempts at communication. I also failed to communicated in my initial post that these are MODIFIED guns that were altered to make them BREECH LOADERS. I think the smaller gun started as a Spanish mountain gun. The other one looks like a "lantaka", but I wish there was a grand synthesis of those guns. Apparently there isn't one. Both are mounted on large - but movable - wooden bases. They are absolutely NOT gunwale sections. They look to me like man-handles field artillery. These guns are both BREAK ACTION breech loaders that were fitted in iron frames that let them pivot open and be firmly closed when they pivoted down. I was hoping to find some precedent for that design somewhere in Asia. More than anything they look to me like BIG shotguns Attached Images

25th March 2021, 11:22 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	The wood mountings make absolutely no sense to me; they cannot be elevated or depressed. Might they be for display or perhaps they were fitted to some sort of carriage and those were removed to facilitate easier shipping back to the States. The one on the left looks like it was modified to take a rimmed cartridge; 37mm cartridge is what was used as an anti-tank round; I can't imagine putting a round that size in a gun approximately 14.5 inches long. Then again... Edited to add link: http://www.landships.info/landships/...chutz_M15.html The Lantaka I can't tell about the breech as the photo you posted does not really show the rear, or breech end of the barrel clearly. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 26th March 2021 at 12:57 AM.

26th March 2021, 02:12 AM	#7
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Rick, Thank you for your comments. You are correct is saying that these tubes do not have direct means of elevation. Perhaps they were used with an element that ain't there now. I also wonder if they were intended for direct fire from a prepared situation much as coehorn mortars were, but instead of shooting a "up" they may have been intended to for direct, short range bombard Both of these guns had the breech plate set into and all the way through the base so that they have a large bolt/nut protruding from the base. They do NOT sit comfortably on a hard flat surface. The 37mm round you showed us is one of the enhanced anti-tank rounds. The first generation 37's - as used in Manchuria and them thru out WW1 - were simply cylinders. Please excuse the shortcomings of these images of what I will call the "Lantaka" First the muzzle. Note that it is essentially flat, but that it has a cast front site. Next consider the breech from the top. My interpretation is that instead of simply cutting the end of the barrel off, the shortening was done to leave a "barrel extension" that would lock into the breech plate. In this view the gun is closed with a replacement brass pin since the original ain't there. Okay, now take a look down the barrel. Note the cartridge extraction system. Next look at the rear of the gun. Two things catch my eye. First, look at the feature at the extreme back end of the barrel extension. Do you see it? I have to wonder/guess that this may somehow be a remnant of the touch hole of the original "uncut" lantaka. It is easier to also see that this gun has a forges iron ring driven into the base. Clearly, it could have been tied down in position. There appears to have been another of these fixtures on the other side of the rear surface. There appear to have been a pair of them in the front of the base as well, but they ain't there now. Attached Images Last edited by pbleed; 26th March 2021 at 03:13 AM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

25th March 2021, 12:09 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I agree with the call for close ups. They don't look like traditional antique lantaks to me, but more late 19thc - early 20thc. IF the second one is an old lantaka, it is such that the lantaka was modified to work on a rail.

25th March 2021, 07:23 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 415	Are the barrels rifled? They may be ships signal guns. Ed

25th March 2021, 08:19 PM	#5
pbleed Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas Posts: 88	Indeed they are NOT rifled. There isn't even a distinct shell chamber so the could be anything. They were brought home by a decorated combat officer with the Philippine Constabulary. Why couldn't they be artillery pieces?

27th March 2021, 06:50 PM	#9
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Peter, may i assume that the (non lantaka) gun also has an extraction system ? Could you then shows a photo taken from its back so that we may discern how that system works; visibly not like the one in the lantaka ...