Charge of the Light Brigade, Balaklava, 1854

Will M · 6th January 2021, 05:53 AM

Some of the earliest 1853p swords were also Liege marked. There were soon reports of the new 1853p blades bending at the hilt due to thinner tangs as these two 1853's have. The guards themselves thinner with thinner bars than later examples by Mole and Enfield.
Pictured are two 1853p Liege marked 1853p swords, marked to the 11th Hussars and 4th Dragoon Guard. One 1821p HC sword marked to the 4th DG.
And for interest a 17th Lancers and 11th Hussars martingale.

I am hoping to see more crimea swords conme to light.

Jim McDougall · 6th January 2021, 05:29 PM

BRILLIANT WILL!!!! Thank you.

It is truly exciting to see examples of these swords of the types used and with regimental markings which of course profoundly suggest their presence in the famed charge is possible.
This was what my young collecting mind dreamed of all those years ago

The information on the M1853 is most interesting, and I was not aware of the Liege examples. Richard Dellar's outstanding book was where I had heard of the Kirschbaum models which were supplied to the units for Crimea.

It seems that Reeves produced these as well, as he had established the new patent hilt with the tang sandwiched with grips riveted to it.

As shown in the last image the 'bowl guard' M1829 saber for heavy cavalry was used in the not as well known charge of the 'heavy brigade' just subsequent to that of the 'light brigade'.
From what I recall both the light and heavy versions of these sabers were initiated in 1821, with issues developing and production was halted until 1829...thus confusion on 1829 vs. 1821.

Attached are the two 'bowl' guard 1829s I have, the one without the 'ears' on grip has a curious straight blade (by Mole) which I have believed was a modification for use in training?
In those days(only references were Robson and Wilkinson) mid 70s it was believed these were hard to find because of many of these used for naval cutlass conversion prototypes, training swords and numbers destroyed in a fire. It took quite some time too find these examples I have, though not exactly stellar quality.

The officers version of the 'bowl' guard heavy cavalry was pierced, this example by the Hamburger, Rogers outfitters.

Will M · 6th January 2021, 06:08 PM

Jim your straight bladed Mole 1921p if for training would most likely have a rounded point as seen on other training swords.
I would suggest Mole made some prototypes or an officer had this one made as a fighting sword.
At the onset of the Crimea War Enfield was struggling to supply war materials. European made 1853p swords were inspected at Liege as not to make a trip to England and back just for proving, even furthuring the wait times.
The 11th Hussars sword interstingly has a 16th Queens Lancers scabbard which makes sense since the regiment was posted to India for 10 years after being in the Crimea as was the 16th QL. Procurment of sword parts seemed to be scavaging parts to more quickly equip the troops. Since the British Crimean cavalry were outfitted with the new 1853p sword before the war ended, it makes sense these Liege swords were one of their first issues.
I was under the impression the Kirschbaum swords were made and issued later in the Crimea War. Being govt. issue swords none of the 1853p swords became presentations for the war and we see the previous pattern, the 1796 LC swords with inscriptions on them.
It can be debated Liege and or Kirchbaum but the thin tangs that drew criticism for bending with the first issue 1853's are evident on the Liege marked swords. The tang may look thicker in the photo, but there is sheet metal on either side of the tang as grip backing plates which makes them appear slightly wider. These tangs do measure considerably less than later 1855 made Mole swords. Liege tang thickness at guard: 0.210 and the Mole of 1855 manufacture: 0.340 Both taper towards the pommel. 0.130 difference in thickness is not manufacturing tolerance but a change made to strenthen the tang of the 1853p.

For an interesting read, a book first published in 1864 titled "Englands Workshops", by Gustav Louis Maurice Strauss. One section is on Reeves, another electroplating and more. As I recall it's an inexpensive print on demand softcover book. Describes the manufacturing processes of swords/bayonets and much more.

Jim McDougall · 6th January 2021, 06:52 PM

Thank you Will!
That is interesting on this curious blade, and perhaps that an officer might have had this fabricated as a fighting sword makes sense. That would explain the absence of 'ears' , but the acceptance marks on the blade (which do not typically appear on officers sword blades) threw me off.

The straight blade intended as a fighting sword also makes sense as the conflict of thrust vs. cut had been ongoing since the late 18th c. I'm sure there were officers who were proponents of the thrust who might have followed this course.

Interesting note on the M1796 light cavalry sabers being present at Balaklava.
This has been a bit of a conundrum to me as I had thought these were swords presented to survivors of the charge at later events with commemorative marked plates on them.
The 1796 had remained is use in India, and with the difficulties with both the M1821 and 1853 forms it does seem feasible some of these might have prevailed with some of the men. I am not sure if this would be possible with 'other ranks' as they had 'issued' rack weapons typically.

6th January 2021, 05:53 AM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Some of the earliest 1853p swords were also Liege marked. There were soon reports of the new 1853p blades bending at the hilt due to thinner tangs as these two 1853's have. The guards themselves thinner with thinner bars than later examples by Mole and Enfield. Pictured are two 1853p Liege marked 1853p swords, marked to the 11th Hussars and 4th Dragoon Guard. One 1821p HC sword marked to the 4th DG. And for interest a 17th Lancers and 11th Hussars martingale. I am hoping to see more crimea swords conme to light. Attached Images Last edited by Will M; 6th January 2021 at 06:19 AM.

6th January 2021, 05:29 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	BRILLIANT WILL!!!! Thank you. It is truly exciting to see examples of these swords of the types used and with regimental markings which of course profoundly suggest their presence in the famed charge is possible. This was what my young collecting mind dreamed of all those years ago The information on the M1853 is most interesting, and I was not aware of the Liege examples. Richard Dellar's outstanding book was where I had heard of the Kirschbaum models which were supplied to the units for Crimea. It seems that Reeves produced these as well, as he had established the new patent hilt with the tang sandwiched with grips riveted to it. As shown in the last image the 'bowl guard' M1829 saber for heavy cavalry was used in the not as well known charge of the 'heavy brigade' just subsequent to that of the 'light brigade'. From what I recall both the light and heavy versions of these sabers were initiated in 1821, with issues developing and production was halted until 1829...thus confusion on 1829 vs. 1821. Attached are the two 'bowl' guard 1829s I have, the one without the 'ears' on grip has a curious straight blade (by Mole) which I have believed was a modification for use in training? In those days(only references were Robson and Wilkinson) mid 70s it was believed these were hard to find because of many of these used for naval cutlass conversion prototypes, training swords and numbers destroyed in a fire. It took quite some time too find these examples I have, though not exactly stellar quality. The officers version of the 'bowl' guard heavy cavalry was pierced, this example by the Hamburger, Rogers outfitters. Attached Images

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6th January 2021, 06:08 PM	#3
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Jim your straight bladed Mole 1921p if for training would most likely have a rounded point as seen on other training swords. I would suggest Mole made some prototypes or an officer had this one made as a fighting sword. At the onset of the Crimea War Enfield was struggling to supply war materials. European made 1853p swords were inspected at Liege as not to make a trip to England and back just for proving, even furthuring the wait times. The 11th Hussars sword interstingly has a 16th Queens Lancers scabbard which makes sense since the regiment was posted to India for 10 years after being in the Crimea as was the 16th QL. Procurment of sword parts seemed to be scavaging parts to more quickly equip the troops. Since the British Crimean cavalry were outfitted with the new 1853p sword before the war ended, it makes sense these Liege swords were one of their first issues. I was under the impression the Kirschbaum swords were made and issued later in the Crimea War. Being govt. issue swords none of the 1853p swords became presentations for the war and we see the previous pattern, the 1796 LC swords with inscriptions on them. It can be debated Liege and or Kirchbaum but the thin tangs that drew criticism for bending with the first issue 1853's are evident on the Liege marked swords. The tang may look thicker in the photo, but there is sheet metal on either side of the tang as grip backing plates which makes them appear slightly wider. These tangs do measure considerably less than later 1855 made Mole swords. Liege tang thickness at guard: 0.210 and the Mole of 1855 manufacture: 0.340 Both taper towards the pommel. 0.130 difference in thickness is not manufacturing tolerance but a change made to strenthen the tang of the 1853p. For an interesting read, a book first published in 1864 titled "Englands Workshops", by Gustav Louis Maurice Strauss. One section is on Reeves, another electroplating and more. As I recall it's an inexpensive print on demand softcover book. Describes the manufacturing processes of swords/bayonets and much more.

6th January 2021, 06:52 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,954	Thank you Will! That is interesting on this curious blade, and perhaps that an officer might have had this fabricated as a fighting sword makes sense. That would explain the absence of 'ears' , but the acceptance marks on the blade (which do not typically appear on officers sword blades) threw me off. The straight blade intended as a fighting sword also makes sense as the conflict of thrust vs. cut had been ongoing since the late 18th c. I'm sure there were officers who were proponents of the thrust who might have followed this course. Interesting note on the M1796 light cavalry sabers being present at Balaklava. This has been a bit of a conundrum to me as I had thought these were swords presented to survivors of the charge at later events with commemorative marked plates on them. The 1796 had remained is use in India, and with the difficulties with both the M1821 and 1853 forms it does seem feasible some of these might have prevailed with some of the men. I am not sure if this would be possible with 'other ranks' as they had 'issued' rack weapons typically.