Identification makers mark

AHorsa · 15th June 2020, 08:13 PM

Thank you Victrix!
You cited from Staffan Kinman’s book. Is there a flower pot mark described in that book by any chance? The mark was discussed years ago but couldn´t be assigned to a specific maker.

Thanks
Andreas

Victrix · 15th June 2020, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AHorsa

Thank you Victrix!
You cited from Staffan Kinman’s book. Is there a flower pot mark described in that book by any chance? The mark was discussed years ago but couldn´t be assigned to a specific maker.

Thanks
Andreas

I’m currently out on an island in the archipelago without access to the book. Will check in few days time.

In the meantime might we see more of your interesting sword?

fernando · 16th June 2020, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victrix

... In the meantime might we see more of your interesting sword?

Yes, Andreas; please do it !

AHorsa · 16th June 2020, 02:39 PM

Would be great if you could have a look, Victrix.

The sword was discussed years ago in this thread:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18464

Victrix · 18th June 2020, 03:50 PM

Yes I remember this stunning sword. You cleaned it so well.

The nearest mark I can find in Kinman’s book has a reference to the Wallace collection which looks about right, although it doesn’t show the mark nor mention ”Viennese.” It doesn’t give any name of the maker/smith but states Solingen which corresponds with the running wolf mark on your blade. Could the number 1518 be the Bible’s John 15:18? https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-15-18/

AHorsa · 18th June 2020, 08:35 PM

Thank you Victrix!!
This mark is also described in the Wallace collection catalogue and it says that it also exists on a rapier in the Metropolitan Museum and on a sword in musee lármee Paris. But sadly also no name.
Bible´s John 15 : 18 is a good idea. But I have no idea how to proof it. From what I´ve read about those numbers it is also not clear if they really refer to Bible verses or if they have other meanings (like some assume that eg. 1414 has something to do wit 2x7x101 or so)

Victrix · 18th June 2020, 09:03 PM

Yes I missed the Description bit: ”Swords with hilts of this kind are often described as Viennese. Compare the mark of a pot of flowers on a Solingen sword in the Musée de l' Armée, Paris (Weyersberg, Solinger Schwertschmiede, p. 75) and a rapier in the Metropolitan Museum, New York (no. 1056). Another was at one time in the de Cosson Collection.”

The idea of the number representing a verse in the Bible is pure speculation on my part but I’m sure the numbers had meaning to people at the time or they wouldn’t have bothered to put it there. I got the idea from a sword in Sweden where the museum thought the four digit number referred to a Bible verse. If so, why is the sword not marked 15:18 or maybe the colon was not used in those days. It’s believed that if numbers repeated and were palindromes etc the power increased. But I’m sure the numbers meant something to start with: prayers, Bible verses, etc. People in those days were highly superstitious because they had less scientific knowledge and life was usually brutish and short.

15th June 2020, 08:13 PM	#1
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 395	Thank you Victrix! You cited from Staffan Kinman’s book. Is there a flower pot mark described in that book by any chance? The mark was discussed years ago but couldn´t be assigned to a specific maker. Thanks Andreas Attached Images

16th June 2020, 02:39 PM	#4
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 395	Would be great if you could have a look, Victrix. The sword was discussed years ago in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18464 Attached Images

18th June 2020, 03:50 PM	#5
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 790	Yes I remember this stunning sword. You cleaned it so well. The nearest mark I can find in Kinman’s book has a reference to the Wallace collection which looks about right, although it doesn’t show the mark nor mention ”Viennese.” It doesn’t give any name of the maker/smith but states Solingen which corresponds with the running wolf mark on your blade. Could the number 1518 be the Bible’s John 15:18? https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/John-15-18/ Attached Images Last edited by Victrix; 18th June 2020 at 04:09 PM.

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18th June 2020, 08:35 PM	#6
AHorsa Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Rhineland Posts: 395	Thank you Victrix!! This mark is also described in the Wallace collection catalogue and it says that it also exists on a rapier in the Metropolitan Museum and on a sword in musee lármee Paris. But sadly also no name. Bible´s John 15 : 18 is a good idea. But I have no idea how to proof it. From what I´ve read about those numbers it is also not clear if they really refer to Bible verses or if they have other meanings (like some assume that eg. 1414 has something to do wit 2x7x101 or so)

18th June 2020, 09:03 PM	#7
Victrix Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sweden Posts: 790	Yes I missed the Description bit: ”Swords with hilts of this kind are often described as Viennese. Compare the mark of a pot of flowers on a Solingen sword in the Musée de l' Armée, Paris (Weyersberg, Solinger Schwertschmiede, p. 75) and a rapier in the Metropolitan Museum, New York (no. 1056). Another was at one time in the de Cosson Collection.” The idea of the number representing a verse in the Bible is pure speculation on my part but I’m sure the numbers had meaning to people at the time or they wouldn’t have bothered to put it there. I got the idea from a sword in Sweden where the museum thought the four digit number referred to a Bible verse. If so, why is the sword not marked 15:18 or maybe the colon was not used in those days. It’s believed that if numbers repeated and were palindromes etc the power increased. But I’m sure the numbers meant something to start with: prayers, Bible verses, etc. People in those days were highly superstitious because they had less scientific knowledge and life was usually brutish and short.