Origin of this Yataghan? (With pictures!)

[TVV]

Originally Posted by ariel

Relatively recent Turkish books, such as the one by Gozde Yasar, perpetuate this narrow view: each and every yataghan there is labeled as Ottoman, with the unspoken implication of being Turkish. No attempt was made to pinpoint decorative features specific to their non-Anatolian origin.

If we adopt Yasar's attribution logic, then Sami knives and kindjals made in Tbilisi in the 19th century are both Russian (or Romanov, if you wish), as those were all made in the Russian Empire. It is a logic that ignores the multi-ethnic nature and regional material culture variations of large empires.

[gp]

some more pics from the book "Starinsko Oruzje"( = old weapons) by Vejsil Curcic , Sarajevo 1926 and one from "la Bosnie l"Herzegovine" by plural writers under supervision of Louis Olivier, Paris 1901.

[gp]

and 3 scans from the occupation war in 1878

[gp]

from Bosnia itself a little about the yataghan:

http://h.etf.unsa.ba/btp/content/muz..._eng/about.htm

http://h.etf.unsa.ba/btp/content/muz..._eng/about.htm

[ariel]

Thanks, I was unaware of those publications.
However, none of them have been cited by Astvatsaturian or Yasar either.

As to your statement that Soviet-Yugoslav relations were rosy till the death of Stalin, please re-read your reference: already in 1948 USSR withdrew all her military and civilian advisers from Yugoslavia and in 1949 the antagonism between the two was already fully apparent. Stalin died in 1953.
But be it as it may, Astvatsaturian started her career in the early 50's, and by that time both Yugoslavia and Albania were de facto "traitors " of the Soviet ideology. Contacts with foreign countries were always very limited and difficult for Soviet citizens and collaborations with the " enemies" was practically unheard of. Soviet researchers worked in complete isolation. Add to that their almost universal inability to read and understand foreign languages together with very controlled and limited access to foreign publications even from major libraries, and the picture becomes even more grim.

[gp]

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks, I was unaware of those publications.
However, none of them have been cited by Astvatsaturian or Yasar either.

You're welcome! Actually this tells more about Astvatsaturian or Yasar...
Although language might also be one botttleneck or showstopper.

But a lot of info (of which many are unaware about untill ones visits the places) can be found locally in Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Greece, Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia, Romania and Serbia .


And by the way.... Greek or not to be ( Greek) ?

They all are copies from....

the ILLYRIAN SIKA ☺☼☺

Etymology: Possibly from Proto-Albanian *tsikā (whence Albanian thikë, "dagger, knife"), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱey- ("to sharpen") possibly via Illyrian.
- According to Dictionnaire des Antiquités Grecques et Romaines the name Sica comes from Proto-Indo-European root sek-, meaning "to cut", "to section", however De Vaan declares any connection to Proto-Indo-European *sek- to be formally impossible.

source: Albanian Archaeology 10 August 2019 ·

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by gp

They all are copies from....

the ILLYRIAN SIKA ☺☼☺

Etymology: Possibly from Proto-Albanian *tsikā (whence Albanian thikë, "dagger, knife"), from Proto-Indo-European *ḱey- ("to sharpen") possibly via Illyrian.
·

You are a bit too much Albanian centered...

I will stay with the Greek kopis, same kind of weapon, same period 5 -4 BC, same area...

[TVV]

Originally Posted by gp

the ILLYRIAN SIKA ☺☼☺

You call it Illyrian, I call it Thracian, someone in Romania would probably call it Dacian...

[ariel]

Originally Posted by TVV

If we adopt Yasar's attribution logic, then Sami knives and kindjals made in Tbilisi in the 19th century are both Russian (or Romanov, if you wish), as those were all made in the Russian Empire. It is a logic that ignores the multi-ethnic nature and regional material culture variations of large empires.

Fully agree.