ID for Ancient Kujang / Kudi? Hindu /Siam/Persian influence?

doecon · 10th May 2006, 06:41 PM

Maisey thanks for sharing, again. I was a bit off with the location of the relief, but thanks for correcting me.

Regarding the square tang, I agree indeed that it’s for blade stability. (Its probably easier to create as well). I have indeed read our article, but I came to a different conclusion. Combination of a larger tang and a square tang would be optimal for any (half) circular movement (up-down or sideways) with the arm (or arms), in my opinion this includes “slashing”. (many slashing weapons do have a square tang, right?). This doesn’t include the keris budha, of course, since it seems rather useless to slash with a short blade.

Mentioning the item being a possible axe helped a lot. I honestly didn’t see that before.
After some quick and rough research I came across a “axe-dagger” or “axe-knife” which has very similar features, originating from the Gujarat area India. (Java was a regular destination for traders from the Gujarat area in those days, shipments included iron and damaststeel).

The axe I’m referring to is called Bhuj (after the city) or Kutti (Kuttai means to cut). It has a tang and is placed on a larger stick (3 times bladesize) so it indicates a doublehand grip..and indeed used for “circular movements”. It comes very near this actual example, but I have to admit that the one in the Sukuh relief has better resemblance (maybe the tip of mine has indeed broken off). It also explains why the tang is rather long and maybe…just maybe..it sounds a bit similar to Kudi (which is probably a late cousin of this blade)

I do not think the name “wedung” is proper for this blade, but I haven’t found a better one yet myself. So I guess its kudi, till proven better

BI: sorry for the misunderstanding
Drdavid: A round hole is indeed easier to make in a smaller pommel, so probably a smaller pommel required a round tang as well. Good point.
Pangeran: Thanks for your comments, I stick to “Kudi” for this blade, but as mentioned probably an early form, looking forward however to see the “needle” tang.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Threaded Mode

10th May 2006, 06:41 PM	#23
doecon Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 63	Maisey thanks for sharing, again. I was a bit off with the location of the relief, but thanks for correcting me. Regarding the square tang, I agree indeed that it’s for blade stability. (Its probably easier to create as well). I have indeed read our article, but I came to a different conclusion. Combination of a larger tang and a square tang would be optimal for any (half) circular movement (up-down or sideways) with the arm (or arms), in my opinion this includes “slashing”. (many slashing weapons do have a square tang, right?). This doesn’t include the keris budha, of course, since it seems rather useless to slash with a short blade. Mentioning the item being a possible axe helped a lot. I honestly didn’t see that before. After some quick and rough research I came across a “axe-dagger” or “axe-knife” which has very similar features, originating from the Gujarat area India. (Java was a regular destination for traders from the Gujarat area in those days, shipments included iron and damaststeel). The axe I’m referring to is called Bhuj (after the city) or Kutti (Kuttai means to cut). It has a tang and is placed on a larger stick (3 times bladesize) so it indicates a doublehand grip..and indeed used for “circular movements”. It comes very near this actual example, but I have to admit that the one in the Sukuh relief has better resemblance (maybe the tip of mine has indeed broken off). It also explains why the tang is rather long and maybe…just maybe..it sounds a bit similar to Kudi (which is probably a late cousin of this blade) I do not think the name “wedung” is proper for this blade, but I haven’t found a better one yet myself. So I guess its kudi, till proven better BI: sorry for the misunderstanding Drdavid: A round hole is indeed easier to make in a smaller pommel, so probably a smaller pommel required a round tang as well. Good point. Pangeran: Thanks for your comments, I stick to “Kudi” for this blade, but as mentioned probably an early form, looking forward however to see the “needle” tang.