Keris with elephant-headed blade.

[Jean]

According to the late Martin Kerner, the hilt seems to depict Bima (see the hair bun) and I would agree with Marco about the East Java origin.
I hope that you can remove the hilt without breaking it further, good luck! Personally I would try to re-glue it with Superglue if you can close the gap on top of the crack by applying pressure.
Regards

[Paul B.]

A similar Bima handle with Balinese blade (?) and unknown dress.
Pics from Czerny auction.

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean,

I've always had a bit of a problem in accepting this identification of Martin's. I was never able to get a definitive source from him as to why this hair-bun should necessarily be a Bhima identifier, and I've not been able to locate any reference myself where a Dvarapala with a hair-bun was positively identified by an accepted authority as Bhima.

I do not accept that every time we see a Dvarapala --- and the nature of one of these figural hilts is in fact the nature of a Dvarapala --- we should automatically accept we are looking at Bhima.

I would be very grateful if somebody could provide a solid foundation for this identification of Martin's.

[David]

I would be interested to learn more on this identification as well. My understanding from searching for images of Bhima as depicted in Jawa and Bali is that the hairstyle is that is most often used is how we see Bhima in wayang theatre. I have also included a Bali hilt (albeit a contemporary carving) that is most probably intended to be Bhima with this same hairstyle.

[David]

Here also we see a temple Dvarapala with this top of the head hair bun. Can we assume this Dvarapala is supposed to be Bhima based solely upon this hairstyle???
These Dvarapala are Balinese. They don't seem to show any attributed that can confuse them with Bhima, but they do have this hair style. BTW, this style of a hair bun on the top of the head can be found on Dvarapala throughout South East Asia, including Cambodia and Thailand.

[apolaki]

Originally Posted by David

Here also we see a temple Dvarapala with this top of the head hair bun. Can we assume this Dvarapala is supposed to be Bhima based solely upon this hairstyle???
These Dvarapala are Balinese. They don't seem to show any attributed that can confuse them with Bhima, but they do have this hair style. BTW, this style of a hair bun on the top of the head can be found on Dvarapala throughout South East Asia, including Cambodia and Thailand.

So they are the ones to blame for the "man-bun?"

[David]

Originally Posted by apolaki

So they are the ones to blame for the "man-bun?"

LOL!!!

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

I would be interested to learn more on this identification as well. My understanding from searching for images of Bhima as depicted in Jawa and Bali is that the hairstyle is that is most often used is how we see Bhima in wayang theatre. I have also included a Bali hilt (albeit a contemporary carving) that is most probably intended to be Bhima with this same hairstyle.

You are correct David, see the attached balinese Bhima figure made from iron wood but I don't know if this hair style is exclusive or not. Your dvarapala picture does not depict Bima but a punakawan IMO.

[Marcokeris]

Two pics about the hilt
one is from Gaspard de Marval (Le Monde du Kris)
the other from Holstein book (Contribution etudes armes orientales)

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, yes, I understood that you took the safe path and let Martin have the attribution, thus I was not questioning you, but rather asking the world at large if anybody knew of any authoritative source for Martin's attribution.

Jean, you have shown us a rather slight, pleasant looking figure carved from wood that you tell us is a representation of Bhima. This figure has a snake around its neck.

Which Hindu deity is very often depicted with a snake around his neck?

Does Bhima wear a snake around his neck?

David has shown us a couple of figures that he identifies as Dvarapalas, I'm assuming that he has taken this designation from the same source as he took the images, because before we can decide if a figure is truly a guardian (ie, dvarapala) we need to place it in context. But if they are not Dvarapalas why should we necessarily name them as Punakawans? These figures are totally removed from context, so we cannot really designate them as anything.

We really do need somebody who is recognised as expert in this field to tell us the things we do not know. Guesses and opinions from laymen are not a lot of use. What I mean by "expert" is a recognised authority in this specific field of art history, somebody like Bernet Kempers, or Fontein, or Kinney, or Klokke, or Kieven, or van Bemmel --- or any other recognised authority in the field of classical Javanese art. Having a high level of knowledge in one field does not necessarily mean that a person has a high level of knowledge in a related field.

Marco has given us a couple of additional images, one of which is identified as the old grab-bag of Raksasa, which is probably fair enough. I've got several hilts that have hair buns, and if they have fangs, I'd be more or less content to call them Raksasas.

This identification of keris hilt figures has been an ongoing problem for a very long time. I have found from experience that it is close to a total waste of time to talk to present day carvers about this. The answers might be buried somewhere in some obscure paper, but I have a great many papers on file, and I have not found anything helpful yet. Standard texts do not seem be too interested in this ID question. Respected people in Balinese & Javanese society seem to contradict one another and hold fast to their own opinions.

Helena van Bemmel had a book published around 25 years ago that is a comparative study of SE Asian Dvarapalas with specifically Dvarapalas in Indonesia that are still in place, but even that does not help a whole lot with specific identification. The whole thing is this:- as people from a Western cultural base we expect that if we see a figure carved as something that resembles a God, or a Demon, or whatever, then we should be able to give it a name. In fact those Gods, Demons & whatever are formless, the statue only exists to personify the invisible force. Dvarapalas have a pretty generic form that brings into the mind of the viewer the idea of protection, but that protective force is present without the Dvarapala, and the idea of protection that the figure conjures up in the mind of a viewer has the effect of concentrating the protective force.

I believe most people who follow the keris discussions in this forum are well aware of the ideas of the World we can see, and the World that we cannot see. Gods, Demons and Dvarapalas are from the world that we cannot see, they are pockets of force, all the statues do is personify them for people who do not yet have the ability to conjure them without a point of focus.

I feel that we need to be exceptionally careful about trying to place names on things that we do not understand. This is the reason that I would very much like to find somebody who knows one hell of a lot more than I do about how to affix identities to the figures we see used as keris hilts, and also Javanese/Balinese statues in general.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

You are correct David, see the attached balinese Bhima figure made from iron wood but I don't know if this hair style is exclusive or not. Your dvarapala picture does not depict Bima but a punakawan IMO.

Beautiful wooden carving of Bhima Jean. I love it.
Yes, i am aware that the photos i posted are nor Bhima. My question was rhetorical. I posted these dvarapala because they had the hairstyle people were claiming indicated Bhima, but i was sure they were not, in fact, Bhima. I can't really speak to the Punakawan question at this point. What i can say to Alan's question is that yes, these statues were identified as dvarapala from the source i grabbed them from and they are indeed acting as guardians outside of temples in Bail. I would have to investigate further to answer which temples those were as i did not pay close attention when i found them, but they dod seem to be in place as guardians for those temple and so i assumed that dvarapala would indeed be the proper designation for them.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean,

I've always had a bit of a problem in accepting this identification of Martin's. I was never able to get a definitive source from him as to why this hair-bun should necessarily be a Bhima identifier, and I've not been able to locate any reference myself where a Dvarapala with a hair-bun was positively identified by an accepted authority as Bhima.

I do not accept that every time we see a Dvarapala --- and the nature of one of these figural hilts is in fact the nature of a Dvarapala --- we should automatically accept we are looking at Bhima.

I would be very grateful if somebody could provide a solid foundation for this identification of Martin's.

Yes Alan, I agree and this is why I said: "According to Martin Kerner...". I came across another possible identification of this figure as Ravana but without solid evidence as well.
Regards

[David]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

A similar Bima handle with Balinese blade (?) and unknown dress.
Pics from Czerny auction.

Interesting keris. What do you suspect it is a Balinese blade though?