SE Asian Double Knives

CharlesS · 22nd January 2020, 07:42 PM

Here is a unique set of double knives from SE Asia, likely Thailand or Burma. At first glance, it's very tempting to label them as badeks/badiks, but the blade profiles are far more Thai or Burmese than Indonesian. The hilts are hardwood.

While some of these double knives always seem to stir up the collector's love of the unique, I don't think they were ever intended as combat weapons. I would suggest that they are martial arts weapons or perhaps even very early tourist pieces, which makes them no less interesting.

Comments welcomed.

Dimensions:
Overall length: 13in.
Blade length: 8.75in.
Blades' widest point: just over 1.5in.

Battara · 24th January 2020, 03:39 AM

Well this is a new one on me........

mariusgmioc · 24th January 2020, 05:14 PM

I would still go for Indonesian or maybe Malaysian, 20th century...

Not tourist but more likely an expression of the creativity of a local smith.

Very interesting! Thank you!

kronckew · 25th January 2020, 06:50 AM

The above are badik-like but aren't. They are Thai.

Similar "krich cab pun phk" or "มีดด้ามปืนพก" knives are commonly found in Thailand, old and newly made...Note the decorations

See also: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...tionmusbkk.htm

Has some interesting weapons photos, include some of these "pistol grip knives".

kronckew · 25th January 2020, 06:57 AM

For comparison, an Indonesian badek with a pamour blade:

CharlesS · 25th January 2020, 02:16 PM

Likely from the same source as kronckew....Here are two images from the National Museum in Bangkok. There are two similarly hilted examples, but unfortunately, the blades are not shown. The hilts here are more akin to Indonesian types. The name for these in Thai is มีดด้ามปืนพก or krich cab pun phk, meaning quite literally "pistol grip knife".

The third pic shows another example much more like the original examples shown.

kai · 25th January 2020, 07:57 PM

Thanks for the additional pics, folks!

We have to keep in mind that not everything coming out of Thailand (much less being displayed in a Thai museum) needs to be Thai from an ethnographic perspective. Aside from diplomatic gifts or spoils of war showing up in any royal armory, traditional pieces from the southern regions historically inhabited by (mainly) Malays are, of course, culturally Malay rather than Thai. In addition, just about any commercially important town has at least one but usually several "Chinese" expat communities.

Like Charles mentioned, the 2 armory pieces may well be of Malay/Indo origin.

The other examples seem to exhibit blades of Thai production or at least style while the hilts more or less try to keep some traditional features.

The hilts of Charles double set do strike me as a bit more off the mark. I wouldn't be surprised if this set was a bit later and possibly crafted locally for someone of southern Chinese descent (possibly for selling).

Regards,
Kai

Sajen · 26th January 2020, 03:55 PM

Hello,
I think Charles examples a genuine, this badik (there will be an other name from region to region) are found also in Buddhist parts of Thailand and parts of Cambodia, see also the other very nice piece with twiscore blade Charles has posted.

Regards,
Detlef

22nd January 2020, 07:42 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	SE Asian Double Knives Here is a unique set of double knives from SE Asia, likely Thailand or Burma. At first glance, it's very tempting to label them as badeks/badiks, but the blade profiles are far more Thai or Burmese than Indonesian. The hilts are hardwood. While some of these double knives always seem to stir up the collector's love of the unique, I don't think they were ever intended as combat weapons. I would suggest that they are martial arts weapons or perhaps even very early tourist pieces, which makes them no less interesting. Comments welcomed. Dimensions: Overall length: 13in. Blade length: 8.75in. Blades' widest point: just over 1.5in. Attached Images

25th January 2020, 06:50 AM	#4
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	The above are badik-like but aren't. They are Thai. Similar "krich cab pun phk" or "มีดด้ามปืนพก" knives are commonly found in Thailand, old and newly made...Note the decorations See also: http://www.arscives.com/historysteel...tionmusbkk.htm Has some interesting weapons photos, include some of these "pistol grip knives". Attached Images

25th January 2020, 06:57 AM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,184	For comparison, an Indonesian badek with a pamour blade: Attached Images

25th January 2020, 02:16 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Likely from the same source as kronckew....Here are two images from the National Museum in Bangkok. There are two similarly hilted examples, but unfortunately, the blades are not shown. The hilts here are more akin to Indonesian types. The name for these in Thai is มีดด้ามปืนพก or krich cab pun phk, meaning quite literally "pistol grip knife". The third pic shows another example much more like the original examples shown. Attached Images Last edited by CharlesS; 25th January 2020 at 02:26 PM.

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24th January 2020, 03:39 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,221	Well this is a new one on me........

24th January 2020, 05:14 PM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,903	I would still go for Indonesian or maybe Malaysian, 20th century... Not tourist but more likely an expression of the creativity of a local smith. Very interesting! Thank you!

25th January 2020, 07:57 PM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,254	Thanks for the additional pics, folks! We have to keep in mind that not everything coming out of Thailand (much less being displayed in a Thai museum) needs to be Thai from an ethnographic perspective. Aside from diplomatic gifts or spoils of war showing up in any royal armory, traditional pieces from the southern regions historically inhabited by (mainly) Malays are, of course, culturally Malay rather than Thai. In addition, just about any commercially important town has at least one but usually several "Chinese" expat communities. Like Charles mentioned, the 2 armory pieces may well be of Malay/Indo origin. The other examples seem to exhibit blades of Thai production or at least style while the hilts more or less try to keep some traditional features. The hilts of Charles double set do strike me as a bit more off the mark. I wouldn't be surprised if this set was a bit later and possibly crafted locally for someone of southern Chinese descent (possibly for selling). Regards, Kai

26th January 2020, 03:55 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Hello, I think Charles examples a genuine, this badik (there will be an other name from region to region) are found also in Buddhist parts of Thailand and parts of Cambodia, see also the other very nice piece with twiscore blade Charles has posted. Regards, Detlef