Global Shipping Program - A cautionary tale.

[RAMBA]

I believe this has been discussed on a couple of threads but I have just had a rather unfortunate result with the Global Shipping Program. This one photo is as close to this old kukri as I will get. Probably a timely reminder to all.

Lesson is don't buy on eBay late at night, when tired, press buttons, exchange a couple of short messages and walk away thinking certain arrangements are in place. And ensure your seller is not using the Global Shipping Program for anything you might want to show here.

I bought this kukri straightaway as it had a buy it now option and had just started its 7 day auction and had no bids. These are sort of my thing and these kora hilt more so. A lovely old one with the Nepalese kora hilt - they don't turn up often.

The seller had in their listing description that they would use 2nd class mail to ship (I assumed this was domestic and international) and I even asked for it to be sent 1st class mail as I paid the asking price - this they said yes to - I left it at that. I certainly though it was coming direct - then when it shipped I noted it was with GSP. I had another look and it would seem that yes they were using GSP for international. I probably just missed this when in checkout - it was late. But I thought when I asked for 1st class mail it was not with GSP. I though well see it in two weeks - I had not even though that this item may be on any restricted GSP list, not that familiar with this program, with what seems almost anything else now I have looked.

Anyway it was last week classed as a "restricted item" by the GSP for shipping to Australia and never left the UK. It is not a restricted item into Australia with Australian Customs. The first I heard of it was a refund from Paypal on my phone and messages from eBay saying - "The item in question has been deemed restricted. This could be due to import/postage restrictions or eligibility requirements within the Global Shipping Program. The item won't be sent to you, nor returned to your seller."

I contacted Pitney Bowes and eBay within the hour and PB response a day later was - "We have looked into your query, and can confirm that the item was restricted for delivery to the Australia. It was reviewed by the Dangerous Goods Approved representative and was deemed that we could not deliver this item to you as it contains “ Item confirmed classified under Chapter 93 (arms and ammunition – parts and accessories), due to global security concerns restricted to All Countries “ Each country has different restrictions, and unfortunately this was unable to be delivered." Global security concerns - was this a ballistic missile?

They have failed to actually read the full Chapter 93 as ..........."Notes.1.- This Chapter does not cover (f) Collectors' pieces or antiques (9705.00.00 or 9706.00.00)." so this was annoying as their shipping specialist quoted a customs act that they had not fully understood. I told them so sending the entire Chapter 93 with highlighted bits. Heard nothing on this just terms and condition and thanks for reaching out - a term I hate.

I have spent the last five days back and forth on the phone and emails to Pitney Bowes and eBay. I sent research, reference book extracts and museum collection images to show then this was an antique item. The ignorance - told if I buy another one from this seller don't use GSP next time - and far reaching policy terms and conditions brick wall means effectively they can do what they like without any recourse or appeal while having to listen to eBay telling me that we can work this out and this is about my safety. Ebay even conceded this was "rare' event as normally the platform would not allow a restricted item to be listed with the GSP shipping opinion.

I have even offered to pay for the kukri to be shipped back to the seller at my cost rather than go in the bin. All on deaf ears.

I was fully refunded and I believe the seller got to keep their gains but I though that it was not the point.The seller was very apologetic and said they had never sold anything "like this" and had inherited the kukri from a relative and had no need for it.

eBay have now informed me the item has been disposed of and thanks for my feedback! Yeah cheers.

I've learnt my lesson.

[Kubur]

What I hate with ebay, is that usually it's forbidden or prohibited to sell edged weapons but you will see thousand of daggers and swords for sale. It's just such an hypocrisy.
And I'm not talking about huge kitchen knives that are absolutely legal and perfect for ebay...
These idiots at the customs and ebay should know that terrorists use kitchen knives and not antique swords...

[Lee]

If you go to the official eBay community forums you will find endless GSP horror stories and complaints along these lines of inappropriate but reimbursed seizure, about shoddy repacking leading to breakage and especially about the high cost and sometimes being charged unnecessary customs duty.

When I was selling Lew's collection I did my own shipping with the USPS (post office) as it was both the best and cheapest service available to me, but I had one buyer insist I cancel and relist with GSP - after warning him, I did and the antique African short sword actually went from the USA to Italy without reported incident.

[kahnjar1]

I have commented on the Forum re GSP in the past, and nothing changes IMHO. I have had correspondence with Ebay themselves with no result. My comment has always been that GSP is both SLOW and EXPENSIVE compared with regular mail.
If from the USA request USPS or from the UK either Parcelforce or Royal Mail Signed for. From France Colissimo is the best IMHO.
If the seller insists on using GSP I will not buy from him.
Bottom line is read the shipping terms on the auction page, and unless the shipping/postage method is clearly stated by the seller, then ask the question as to what he /she uses. It costs nothing to ask a question and in the end can save one much heartache and unnecessary $$$.
Stu

[Will M]

I too have learned that lesson, never buy if the seller uses GSP. Between Ebay fees and fees on the shipping costs it takes a 20% bite out of the sellers profits.
Ebay dreams up blanket restrictions that have nothing to do with law. Just another way to cash in. I was warned recently by Ebay just because I was asking the seller something and they construed it as buying and avoiding Ebay.
They can charge you fees against an item even if you did not sell it.
This is sheer overreaching GREED and I rarely buy or sell on Ebay because I refuse to feed the beast.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Will M

I too have learned that lesson, never buy if the seller uses GSP. Between Ebay fees and fees on the shipping costs it takes a 20% bite out of the sellers profits.
Ebay dreams up blanket restrictions that have nothing to do with law. Just another way to cash in. I was warned recently by Ebay just because I was asking the seller something and they construed it as buying and avoiding Ebay.
They can charge you fees against an item even if you did not sell it.
This is sheer overreaching GREED and I rarely buy or sell on Ebay because I refuse to feed the beast.

Will, I agree with you 110% as re dealing on eBay, and my aversion applies to antiques in general. It used to be easy and often lucrative, but because of the policies being discussed, and the crapshoot inherent in shoddy descriptions and poor photos, this is a venue I avoid now.

My overseas auction buying is limited to the major salerooms in the UK and on the Continent, and through rapport built up with their staff, my requests for info and better photos are in hand before I cast a bid. And of course the shipping protocol and any legal issues (CITES, firearms, national embargoes) are spelled out upfront). There are some types of items I would not buy unless previewed in person, but otherwise have done well operating under these parameters. On a quality item that you are reasonably sure about, and sure about actually receiving, it's worth paying the auctioneer's "juice" on the hammer price.

[Sajen]

The sword which start this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=minasbad get lost by similar circumstances like from Ramba described! And I lost nearly $100 by this trouble as well! Never ever I'll buy from sellers who use the GSP again!

[RAMBA]

Originally Posted by Lee

If you go to the official eBay community forums you will find endless GSP horror stories and complaints along these lines of inappropriate but reimbursed seizure, about shoddy repacking leading to breakage and especially about the high cost and sometimes being charged unnecessary customs duty.

When I was selling Lew's collection I did my own shipping with the USPS (post office) as it was both the best and cheapest service available to me, but I had one buyer insist I cancel and relist with GSP - after warning him, I did and the antique African short sword actually went from the USA to Italy without reported incident.

Yes I have read many stories now. Lots of stuff gets tagged as restricted. Some of it obviously is and is legitimate (above was a "knife" all day long) but some of it is not if the parcel was actually looked at.

It will all be about automation and reducing costs so most flagged items probably do not even get looked at in any detail to confirm the validity of the restricted key word algorithms. Apparently the listing title is the customs deceleration within the GSP system.

Avoid GSP at all costs as seller or buyer. The T & Cs are wide ranging blanket ones. Nothing discussed on these pages should be sent via the GSP - they are not permitted period. Very long prohibited/ineligible items list. And the collateral damage? Shrug of shoulders as seller keeps their money and buyer gets refund.

My fault partly as I had not ever noted GSP until too late. I thought Royal Mail as stated by seller in description and reconfirmed in message - misunderstanding - domestic to GSP. There is no recourse. Nil. Pity I was looking forward to this old one.

[RAMBA]

Originally Posted by Sajen

The sword which start this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=minasbad get lost by similar circumstances like from Ramba described! And I lost nearly $100 by this trouble as well! Never ever I'll buy from sellers who use the GSP again!

Read that - pity too - I felt for you on that one. Even the refund does not make one move on strait away. And impossible to get past tier one customer support.

Email after email etc. and ZIP for it.

No recourse. Nil. Never buy or sell using GSP. I have read they have seized "butter knives" and they are blunt.

Nearly anything discussed on this forum will be deemed "restricted" with the GSP.

[RAMBA]

Originally Posted by Will M

I too have learned that lesson, never buy if the seller uses GSP. Between Ebay fees and fees on the shipping costs it takes a 20% bite out of the sellers profits.
Ebay dreams up blanket restrictions that have nothing to do with law. Just another way to cash in. I was warned recently by Ebay just because I was asking the seller something and they construed it as buying and avoiding Ebay.
They can charge you fees against an item even if you did not sell it.
This is sheer overreaching GREED and I rarely buy or sell on Ebay because I refuse to feed the beast.

This is a company GSP blanket policy only - shipping this from UK to me does not break any laws - domestic (UK and AUS) or international.

GSP also charge blanket import and customs fees when none would be due in the relevant jurisdiction.

Many other collectibles and antique forums with GSP stories. Never use GSP for one off items that can't be easily bought/replaced elsewhere.

[RAMBA]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I have commented on the Forum re GSP in the past, and nothing changes IMHO. I have had correspondence with Ebay themselves with no result. My comment has always been that GSP is both SLOW and EXPENSIVE compared with regular mail.
If from the USA request USPS or from the UK either Parcelforce or Royal Mail Signed for. From France Colissimo is the best IMHO.
If the seller insists on using GSP I will not buy from him.
Bottom line is read the shipping terms on the auction page, and unless the shipping/postage method is clearly stated by the seller, then ask the question as to what he /she uses. It costs nothing to ask a question and in the end can save one much heartache and unnecessary $$$.
Stu

I thought Royal Mail as stated by seller in description and reconfirmed in message - misunderstanding - domestic to GSP. It was late at night and I just committed to "buy it now" paid automatically and went to bed. I did not note GSP until shipped. My mistake. lesson don't use this service ever and don't buy late at night when tired. If I had just bid and waited the 7 days I would have probably not made the oversight. But these are my thing and the BIN price was fair.

[Lee]

It will all be about automation and reducing costs so most flagged items probably do not even get looked at in any detail to confirm the validity of the restricted key word algorithms.

Often, when I was listing, the eBay system 'saw' a keyword of 'concern' and did not offer GSP. Good for them. But, PB and eBay need to get together and harmonize their systems so that GSP is never offered on an item that PB will reject.

Often, the eBay keyword recognition would give me warnings about listing Native American artifacts when I was listing south Asian Indian items. I also learned to never use the word 'Sudan' as eBay attempted a total ban, while the actual legal export restrictions were very narrowly targeted and clearly inapplicable to my item (unless I was shipping it to one of about a dozen officials in Sudan.) The eBay community forums also document the shortcomings of eBay's reliance on 'ai' automation in many other ways.

[RAMBA]

Originally Posted by Lee

Often, when I was listing, the eBay system 'saw' a keyword of 'concern' and did not offer GSP. Good for them. But, PB and eBay need to get together and harmonize their systems so that GSP is never offered on an item that PB will reject.

Often, the eBay keyword recognition would give me warnings about listing Native American artifacts when I was listing south Asian Indian items. I also learned to never use the word 'Sudan' as eBay attempted a total ban, while the actual legal export restrictions were very narrowly targeted and clearly inapplicable to my item (unless I was shipping it to one of about a dozen officials in Sudan.) The eBay community forums also document the shortcomings of eBay's reliance on 'ai' automation in many other ways.

The seller had never "sold anything like this". They had inherited old weapons from a distant relative - the rest are relic items of no real interest or value. Called in listing title "British WW1 Gurkha Kukri knife / sword with scabbard" as this was their best guess and listed under WW1 "field equipment" and category "swords" but was still offered GSP. Their description "British Gurkha Kukri knife with scabbard. British WW1 Very collectable. Condition is Used. Dispatched with Royal Mail 2nd Class.". I think the AI is pretty smart these days so this should have been blocked from GSP. Anyway what is done is done.

I also suspect that seller did not know this item was available internationally through GSP. But eBay and PB said it is on our list, a "knife", and is restricted - no recall. No discussion.

[RAMBA]

This knife would also be restricted! "The Corona Crested China - Gurkha's WW1 Kukri Knife - Newark Upon Trent (152)"