Spanish Sidearm, Artillery or???

Will M · 20th October 2019, 04:47 AM

A recent find and so far and now know it is Spanish 1843p but I do not know what the markings signify on the crossguard. From what I've read it could be artillery, pioneers or infantry, possibly something else?

corrado26 · 20th October 2019, 10:09 AM

This item - Machete Modelo 1843 - is used by the Spanish "GASTADORES DE INFANTERIA". Unfortunately my knowledge of the Spanish language is very weak so I cannot translate this expression. But I'm sure that there will be help by others.
corrado26

Chris Evans · 20th October 2019, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

This item - Machete Modelo 1843 - is used by the Spanish "GASTADORES DE INFANTERIA". Unfortunately my knowledge of the Spanish language is very weak so I cannot translate this expression. But I'm sure that there will be help by others.
corrado26

I think that "Pioneer" or "Sapper" are the closest English equivalents.

Cheers
Chris

fernando · 20th October 2019, 12:53 PM

A translation in the first sense would be illusive, as it appears as waster (over spender). From the Latin vastator = devastator; in the contextual sense one that opens the path, makes bridges, open ditches and trenches.
To put it simple, the predecessor of the sapper.

PS
Chris was faster; his text was shorter

.

fernando · 20th October 2019, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

... but I do not know what the markings signify on the crossguard...

It should be the regiment's number; 11 ?

.

kronckew · 20th October 2019, 09:07 PM

Gastadores de la Infanteria de Marina

Spanish naval marine pioneers? Note the 'pioneer' axes on their shoulder emblems.

the term Gastadores appears to have taken on the meaning of 'spenders' or spendthrifts in modern spanish. The military use seems to be what we call 'pioneers'. Pioneers tend to be the only troops allowed to wear beards.

fernando · 21st October 2019, 12:33 PM

Precisely as i approached in my previous post. Translating gastador in a machine will give you (money) spender, thus showing us a funny result.
We should consider the other acceptation of the term and follow that path. Gastador = Latin vastator, from the verb vastare, devastare, and in this archaic form it indicated the one that would hack, ravage, destroy or devastate a region. In the seventeenth century it meant men who had the task of clearing paths, building and repairing bridges, digging ditches, digging trenches, and generally doing all the manual work of preparing the ground for progression, defense, or development. Army assault on an enemy fortified position. They were the predecessors of the sappers.

Or, if you prefer ...
The Gatadores are defined in the "Military Dictionary" by Jorge de Wartelet (1863) as those soldiers chosen in the Grenadier companies of the Infantry regiments, who marched "at the head of them armed with rifle with bayonet, once they wore in addition useful of sappers, of which they used in campaign to cross the difficult steps ”. It is not possible to contemplate as weapons the tools that equipped the Gastadores, but it is no less certain that such tools exist constituting “distinctive” of this “class” of troops, just as they did in certain “classes” weapons devoid of other utility practice. The "distinctive tools" of Gastador do not know models, exaggerate their dimensions and usually include references to their service in a certain regiment. In the middle of the 19th century, the formation of such tools ceased. The Uniformity Regulations for Infantry of August 18, 1886, established thirteen Gastadores per battalion, equipped with five axes, five with picks, two with shovels and one with saw, specifying: “They will not be used in any formation, subtracting deposited in warehouse, to be able to use them in cases of fires or works in which they are to be used ”.
(Juan L. Calvado December 2005)

20th October 2019, 04:47 AM	#1
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Spanish Sidearm, Artillery or??? A recent find and so far and now know it is Spanish 1843p but I do not know what the markings signify on the crossguard. From what I've read it could be artillery, pioneers or infantry, possibly something else? Attached Images

20th October 2019, 09:07 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,183	Gastadores de la Infanteria de Marina Spanish naval marine pioneers? Note the 'pioneer' axes on their shoulder emblems. the term Gastadores appears to have taken on the meaning of 'spenders' or spendthrifts in modern spanish. The military use seems to be what we call 'pioneers'. Pioneers tend to be the only troops allowed to wear beards. Attached Images

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20th October 2019, 10:09 AM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	This item - Machete Modelo 1843 - is used by the Spanish "GASTADORES DE INFANTERIA". Unfortunately my knowledge of the Spanish language is very weak so I cannot translate this expression. But I'm sure that there will be help by others. corrado26

20th October 2019, 12:53 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	A translation in the first sense would be illusive, as it appears as waster (over spender). From the Latin vastator = devastator; in the contextual sense one that opens the path, makes bridges, open ditches and trenches. To put it simple, the predecessor of the sapper. PS Chris was faster; his text was shorter .

21st October 2019, 12:33 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Precisely as i approached in my previous post. Translating gastador in a machine will give you (money) spender, thus showing us a funny result. We should consider the other acceptation of the term and follow that path. Gastador = Latin vastator, from the verb vastare, devastare, and in this archaic form it indicated the one that would hack, ravage, destroy or devastate a region. In the seventeenth century it meant men who had the task of clearing paths, building and repairing bridges, digging ditches, digging trenches, and generally doing all the manual work of preparing the ground for progression, defense, or development. Army assault on an enemy fortified position. They were the predecessors of the sappers. Or, if you prefer ... The Gatadores are defined in the "Military Dictionary" by Jorge de Wartelet (1863) as those soldiers chosen in the Grenadier companies of the Infantry regiments, who marched "at the head of them armed with rifle with bayonet, once they wore in addition useful of sappers, of which they used in campaign to cross the difficult steps ”. It is not possible to contemplate as weapons the tools that equipped the Gastadores, but it is no less certain that such tools exist constituting “distinctive” of this “class” of troops, just as they did in certain “classes” weapons devoid of other utility practice. The "distinctive tools" of Gastador do not know models, exaggerate their dimensions and usually include references to their service in a certain regiment. In the middle of the 19th century, the formation of such tools ceased. The Uniformity Regulations for Infantry of August 18, 1886, established thirteen Gastadores per battalion, equipped with five axes, five with picks, two with shovels and one with saw, specifying: “They will not be used in any formation, subtracting deposited in warehouse, to be able to use them in cases of fires or works in which they are to be used ”. (Juan L. Calvado December 2005)