Twisted mind

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Guys

Then I have a question, the laz bichaq, is a particular blade or a particular hilt??

Nihl do you have a stamp on your blade?

That is a very good question Kubur!! and I was so preoccupied with the 'horned hilt' which is that typically seen on these. However, the key element seems to have been the typically recurved blade. I have seen other styles of hilt on these blades, but rarely.
This becomes a common issue, where it becomes a problem in terming a weapon, by hilt or by blade.

Take for example the tulwar, where we automatically see the dish pommel of the Indo-Persian hilt, but the talwar term applies in a general sense to 'sword' usually a sabre. I have seen 'tulwars' of Deccani form with solid steel shamsir (Persian) type hilts, quillon terminals and langet identical to the Indo-Persian.....it is called still, tulwar.

This becomes one of the most confounding conundrums in naming or terming edged weapons. I think Rawson considered it far too daunting to try to follow the hilt terminology for naming forms, though it is occasionally noted . Pant took the hilt route, arbitrarily trying to designate regional tulwar hilts, and trying to further delineate blade forms as well. The mix becomes of course confusing, at least as far as I have experienced.

Back to the question, in this case, but not following any particular axiom, I would consider the sword posted by Nihl a Laz Bichagi hilt on regular sabre blade.

Illustrations are the typical recurved blade form on the Laz Bichagi, the unusual scabbard shape and the typical 'horned' hilt. These seem to recall the horned head seen on the 'devils head mace' seen in some varied instances of Persian and other examples. However, it has been suggested that these 'horns' may recall similar devices on some early Turkic tribal standards which later became used in tamgas and symbolic devices.

The symbol for the St Irene arsenal in Istanbul has the horned design (with ox tails etc.) which derives from the IYI symbol of the Kayi tribe, one of the 24 Oguz tribes from which the Ottomans descended through Osman Gazi.
This MAY be a plausible denominator for the horned element on these swords but remains of course speculative.