"Elephant" Keris

[A. G. Maisey]

Bill, you have invited comment on this keris.

Are you able to be more precise in respect of the information you would like to receive?

The motif in the sorsoran might be able to be understood as a flying elephant, how that might be able to be interpreted might be able to be associated with a Javanese cult, the talismanic qualities that the motif is believed to incorporate could depend upon how it is interpreted.

The name of the motif is manglar mongo (also manglar munga --- and several other spelling variations which can mean different things); the language can be read as Javanese, but it might be Kawi or corrupted Kawi. Over the years several native speakers of Javanese have given me a number of different meanings, and those meanings have varied, depending upon how they felt at the time.

As for the matter of luk meanings, it might be best not to go there, if we wish to finish this thread before Christmas 2019.

EDIT

I have just finished a telephone conversation with the most accomplished native speaker of Javanese with whom I am acquainted. He assures me that the words "manglar monga" and all variations in spelling thereof make no sense to him, however, in light of the fact that wings are involved, he has suggested that "manglar" should understood as being associated with wings, thus it should be understood as "mang + lar" = "to have grown wings".

His guess is that manga/munga/mongo/ & etc, etc, etc could be dialect or a different language entirely, possibly a language from Sulawesi or Sumatera, or even a level of Javanese that he does not use (he uses the normal four levels of Javanese when speaking Javanese).

So, looking at the motif of an elephant with wings, maybe one day we'll find out that for somebody, somewhere "munga" means elephant.

FURTHER EDIT

On the other hand, maybe this motif should not be referred to as "manglar mongo" at all, maybe it should be taken as "liman lar":- liman = elephant, lar = wings, liman lar is a legitimate motif, mostly in Madura keris.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As for the matter of luk meanings, it might be best not to go there, if we wish to finish this thread before Christmas 2019.

Well that's the nice thing about internet forums. A thread doesn't need to end this Christmas, next Christmas or ever for that matter. And we can walk away and come back to the subject again and again whenever there is more to say or share. Nothing really good comes quickly or easily.

[A. G. Maisey]

True David, true, but I think Ill stay out of luk discussion.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

True David, true, but I think Ill stay out of luk discussion.

That is a shame. I was hoping that you might have some of the more interesting things to say on the subject.

[Bill M]

Alan, thank you as always for your insightful remarks. I am learning and having a great time.

Looking forward to your comments on "Luks". I have read that the number of luks are important numerology to the Javanese?

So I have been questioned that I ask questions that are not relevant, so I am moving slowly and digesting.

[kai]

Hello Bill,

I assume you may have missed this paper from Alan during your forum abstinence; recommended reading for sure:
http://kerisattosanaji.com/INTERPRETATIONPAGE1.html

If this results in even more questions, I guess we can coax Alan into giving some more comments later...

Regards,
Kai

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Bill,

I assume you may have missed this paper from Alan during your forum abstinence; recommended reading for sure:
http://kerisattosanaji.com/INTERPRETATIONPAGE1.html

If this results in even more questions, I guess we can coax Alan into giving some more comments later...

Regards,
Kai

Thank you Kai, he sent me a copy. I just have not had time to read it. I am very busy winding up some year-end business. Been working at least 12 hours a day, and at the age of 75 (could you believe it?) I am slowing down. Will send you a private email when I can dash one off.

EDITED: I have taken a while to read the above paper. It is opening ideas and symbols that make sense with some of my understanding of the Hindu. And much better understanding of the keris.

He has spelt out many of the questions that seem to be repeated here. Simple answers that open new ideas and questions. I plan to reread this paper through several more times hoping for better understanding.

Anne and I have collected a variety of artifacts from various cultures. There is a clear understanding that none of the creators were making decorations, but important working tools to define the bridges between visible and invisible realms.

Beauty when we reach it in a visceral sense is a reflection of higher realms. Objects we see as beautiful are therefore because they are rooted in a rarefied (from our limited perspectives) atmospheres.

Following them, we can reach higher degrees of spirituality.

In one of the disciplines I have studied has physical signs, smells, sounds, vibrations, animals and objects where we can surround ourselves. Then go into a meditative state and gain a fingernail grip on an otherwise level we had not really imagined.

I have looked at a keris blade by a single candle and it sometimes seems alive and moving. Perhaps a Tree in a gentle breeze.

I am seeing a new depth in kerisology, the meaning of the blumbagan, the ron dha (om), the lingam and the yoni. The Tree of Life. Fascinating!