Help ID This rapier

Rocks N´steel · 26th September 2018, 11:45 PM

I resently purchased this interesting Cup/Ball hilt Epee togheter with some other swords fromn an old castle estate in nordseeland Denmark.

Unfortunly it havent been possebly to find positive ID/dating on the blade and Cup ( the handle is added in lack of the original one an is only to get the feeling of handle) så only blade and Cup are original, onthe Cup is ingraved in french ( i suppose

)" L´honorable plus haut que la vie" Markers mark on the blade just above the cup, looks like a cresent moon, beside the cartuche with a star or crown with R,B or P ? , on the blad other side is inscription i cannot read, hope the weapon of arms on the blade give a clue - i will apriciate any clue and help!

Best regards Kjeld.

corrado26 · 27th September 2018, 08:39 AM

If I am right this is not a rapier but a florett and the script at the inside of the blade is "Manufre de Klingenthal" what stands for the French Manufacture d'armes de Klingenthal/Alsace.
corrado26

Rocks N´steel · 27th September 2018, 10:16 AM

I am sure you are right

florett it is, you do not have any other info on the blade/Cup? or the inscription and markers mark? ( i can see fromn other threads that you are well equipt in knoveledge conserning the history on the blades

)

mariusgmioc · 27th September 2018, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corrado26

If I am right this is not a rapier but a florett and the script at the inside of the blade is "Manufre de Klingenthal" what stands for the French Manufacture d'armes de Klingenthal/Alsace.
corrado26

More exactly an Epee.

Most likely late 19th century.

Rocks N´steel · 27th September 2018, 10:33 AM

Could this be a "épée de combat" Duel veapon?, wich put the script on the Cup/ball in understanderable context, "honour outweight life" (freely translateed fromn the french script) and if so, what dating are we talking about? best rgards - Kjeld

Rocks N´steel · 27th September 2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Precisely!

Most likely late 19th century.

Ok

A florette it is then, could it be a" épée de combat " Duel veapon?, makes the script on the Ball/Cup in right contekst ( honour before life )

fernando · 27th September 2018, 02:06 PM

Welcome to the forum Kjeld,
Florets are not for combat but for (school) fencing.

corrado26 · 27th September 2018, 04:31 PM

The very small oval mark with an "S" under a star directly under the hilt could perhaps be the mark of Francois Antoine Schütz. He has been controler of blades since 1853 in the armsfactory of Châtellerault. May be he was controler at Klingenthal in the years before too.
The second possibility is that the blade has been made by the armsfactory of Châtellerault and afterwards was sold to Klingenthal, where it got the signature of Klingenthal.
corrado26

Rocks N´steel · 29th September 2018, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Welcome to the forum Kjeld,
Florets are not for combat but for (school) fencing.

Ok - Swords are not my main intrest (yet

) so i do apriciate any visdom and knoveledge- so Duel Epee is more likly the ID i suppose

fernando · 30th September 2018, 04:10 AM

Not really for duel, but for sports and training.

NeilUK · 30th September 2018, 08:18 PM

It certainly has the form of a sport epee, possibly early 20th century, except for the sharp point! So perhaps it was intended for the duel, not to the death but to first blood. Sport epees at this time had a short triple point tip, just enough to catch in the clothing. Nowadays they have a flat spring-loaded tip and are all electronic.
Neil

fernando · 1st October 2018, 03:53 AM

Yes, the original FLEURET had a protected point called "La mouche".

26th September 2018, 11:45 PM	#1
Rocks N´steel Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 5	Help ID Epee/Rapier I resently purchased this interesting Cup/Ball hilt Epee togheter with some other swords fromn an old castle estate in nordseeland Denmark. Unfortunly it havent been possebly to find positive ID/dating on the blade and Cup ( the handle is added in lack of the original one an is only to get the feeling of handle) så only blade and Cup are original, onthe Cup is ingraved in french ( i suppose )" L´honorable plus haut que la vie" Markers mark on the blade just above the cup, looks like a cresent moon, beside the cartuche with a star or crown with R,B or P ? , on the blad other side is inscription i cannot read, hope the weapon of arms on the blade give a clue - i will apriciate any clue and help! Best regards Kjeld. Attached Images Last edited by Rocks N´steel; 27th September 2018 at 11:36 AM.

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27th September 2018, 08:39 AM	#2
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	If I am right this is not a rapier but a florett and the script at the inside of the blade is "Manufre de Klingenthal" what stands for the French Manufacture d'armes de Klingenthal/Alsace. corrado26

27th September 2018, 10:16 AM	#3
Rocks N´steel Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 5	I am sure you are right florett it is, you do not have any other info on the blade/Cup? or the inscription and markers mark? ( i can see fromn other threads that you are well equipt in knoveledge conserning the history on the blades )

27th September 2018, 10:33 AM	#5
Rocks N´steel Member Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 5	Could this be a "épée de combat" Duel veapon?, wich put the script on the Cup/ball in understanderable context, "honour outweight life" (freely translateed fromn the french script) and if so, what dating are we talking about? best rgards - Kjeld

27th September 2018, 02:06 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Welcome to the forum Kjeld, Florets are not for combat but for (school) fencing.

27th September 2018, 04:31 PM	#8
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,204	The very small oval mark with an "S" under a star directly under the hilt could perhaps be the mark of Francois Antoine Schütz. He has been controler of blades since 1853 in the armsfactory of Châtellerault. May be he was controler at Klingenthal in the years before too. The second possibility is that the blade has been made by the armsfactory of Châtellerault and afterwards was sold to Klingenthal, where it got the signature of Klingenthal. corrado26

30th September 2018, 04:10 AM	#10
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Not really for duel, but for sports and training.

30th September 2018, 08:18 PM	#11
NeilUK Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	It certainly has the form of a sport epee, possibly early 20th century, except for the sharp point! So perhaps it was intended for the duel, not to the death but to first blood. Sport epees at this time had a short triple point tip, just enough to catch in the clothing. Nowadays they have a flat spring-loaded tip and are all electronic. Neil

1st October 2018, 03:53 AM	#12
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Yes, the original FLEURET had a protected point called "La mouche".