Kaskara Cross-guards—a second essay for comment by Ed Hunley

Edster · 21st August 2018, 03:35 PM

Thanks for your observation/image, Martin. You're correct that there may be a substantial link between the Funj and Ethiopia and other nearby Christian states and the origin of the kaskara. There were a few Christian kingdoms remaining near Ethiopia after the Funj defeated the main one (can't recall its name just now) with capital near present day Khartoum.

I found this thread after the Essay has gone to press. Discussion on this subject herein.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...Kaskara+blades

Also Kubur presented this 1845 image in that same thread. Others have been shown previously by others.

Regards,
Ed

midelburgo · 22nd August 2018, 05:34 PM

From the Ethyopian.

Through the Mamluk swords.

We will finish in Byzantium.

Edster · 23rd August 2018, 01:21 PM

Midelburgo.

Thanks for your comment. You could well be proven correct. Still need more research on the technical transition/evolution of how the quillon is attached to the blade and tang.

Regards,
Ed

Edster · 21st September 2018, 04:20 PM

In the body of this essay I mentioned an article on Ali Dinar swords by Julia Anderson, et al of the British Museum. I highly recommend it on this interesting subject. That article is now available of the EAA Geographical Index as below:

J. Anderson, A. Ali Mohaned, et al, “Royal Regalia: a sword of the last Sultan of Darfur, Ali Dinar” Sudan and Nubia, The Sudan Archaeological Research Society, Bulletin No. 20, 2016 (Available from EAAGI or via this link: http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/...rson_et_al.pdf

Best,
Ed

Edster · 2nd April 2019, 09:39 PM

The .pdf and printable version of this essay is now available on the EAA Geographical Index as "Kaskara Cross-guards/Quillons"

or directly via this link.

http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/hunl...ara_guards.pdf

As with the Kaskara Fullers monograph, I am indebted to Lee Jones who's layout and editing skills converted the raw thread into a professional document. Also, a special thanks to Ian Greaves who converted my original text and images into a readable thread.

I also appreciate the valuable insights of various Forum Members who added their comments and images to the original thread. It took all of us to produce a useful and I believe significant document.

Expect the third essay, "Kaskara in Silver Dress", to be converted to .pdf soon.

Best regards,
Ed Hunley

fernando · 3rd April 2019, 12:25 PM

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 5th April 2019, 11:45 PM

Dear Ed, First congratulations on this great thread and clearly a whole lot of effort has gone into its production.

Perhaps you can note that it is arranged in direct opposite to the thread we are dealing upon over the likeness to Manding and other weapons across the region...and that in the first instance you align this detail below in italic;

Note: Mandinka swords from West Africa also have a leaf-shaped scabbard, but there are apparently no strong cultural links that would have influenced the design of the kaskara’s scabbard.]

and that further on you suggest that it was Manding that passed on the flared scabbard at hajj to the Sudani at Hajj. pitt rivers museum think experts show it was the other way around but notwithstanding the direction it was transferred from would that not indicate a certain degree of liason between the two nations in contradiction of your earlier suggestion of little or no cultural links? Moreover would not the fact that both nations had adopted the Arabic alphabet be of some support to the contrary.

Would not the proven catalysts of war, religion, trade, exploration have come under the broad brush of interaction and liaison/ cultural exchange? Other experts according to museum reports suggest that the scabbard was a crocodile form and was known across broad swathes of tribal Africa and that the reason for its geometric as opposed to animal design was owing to the rules for artistic impression in the religion and that leatherworkers were the first Manding to convert to Islam at least in the Manding homeland...but that Sudan converted earlier being much further east.
Could it be that Manding and kaskara are not fighting weapons. We know that the higher ranking Sudani wearers of the silver hilts never used the kaskara to fight. Badge of office only.

I see little evidence that any of these were weapons as such save the possibility that the cross guard is a fighting sword marker in other countries...yet equally I could point out that many of these kaskara when adopted by the Mahdi had very flimsy blades and more designed as carriers of Islamic quotations and edicts rather than battle swords yet they has the same guards.. Alam in miniature carried by thousands of warriors as inspiration and religious guidance etc

If the Manding was not a weapon then what was the role of the kaskara?

Was it not the case that although carried into war they were originally not actual battle swords? Naturally the weapon which did most damage was the spear and lance but the question raises the point of what was the primary use for this so called weapon..Was it not purely psychological?

Thus I think that is two questions of some importance~

1. What evidence is there that the kaskara was a fighting weapon?
2. Which way was the transfer of technology/style (to the East or West) and surely the influence was present as the two countries were in fact culturally linked ?

21st August 2018, 03:35 PM	#1
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 449	Thanks for your observation/image, Martin. You're correct that there may be a substantial link between the Funj and Ethiopia and other nearby Christian states and the origin of the kaskara. There were a few Christian kingdoms remaining near Ethiopia after the Funj defeated the main one (can't recall its name just now) with capital near present day Khartoum. I found this thread after the Essay has gone to press. Discussion on this subject herein. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...Kaskara+blades Also Kubur presented this 1845 image in that same thread. Others have been shown previously by others. Regards, Ed Attached Images

22nd August 2018, 05:34 PM	#2
midelburgo Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 296	From the Ethyopian. Through the Mamluk swords. We will finish in Byzantium. Attached Images

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23rd August 2018, 01:21 PM	#3
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 449	Midelburgo. Thanks for your comment. You could well be proven correct. Still need more research on the technical transition/evolution of how the quillon is attached to the blade and tang. Regards, Ed

21st September 2018, 04:20 PM	#4
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 449	In the body of this essay I mentioned an article on Ali Dinar swords by Julia Anderson, et al of the British Museum. I highly recommend it on this interesting subject. That article is now available of the EAA Geographical Index as below: J. Anderson, A. Ali Mohaned, et al, “Royal Regalia: a sword of the last Sultan of Darfur, Ali Dinar” Sudan and Nubia, The Sudan Archaeological Research Society, Bulletin No. 20, 2016 (Available from EAAGI or via this link: http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/...rson_et_al.pdf Best, Ed

2nd April 2019, 09:39 PM	#5
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 449	The .pdf and printable version of this essay is now available on the EAA Geographical Index as "Kaskara Cross-guards/Quillons" or directly via this link. http://vikingsword.com/ethsword/hunl...ara_guards.pdf As with the Kaskara Fullers monograph, I am indebted to Lee Jones who's layout and editing skills converted the raw thread into a professional document. Also, a special thanks to Ian Greaves who converted my original text and images into a readable thread. I also appreciate the valuable insights of various Forum Members who added their comments and images to the original thread. It took all of us to produce a useful and I believe significant document. Expect the third essay, "Kaskara in Silver Dress", to be converted to .pdf soon. Best regards, Ed Hunley

3rd April 2019, 12:25 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694

5th April 2019, 11:45 PM	#7
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Dear Ed, First congratulations on this great thread and clearly a whole lot of effort has gone into its production. Perhaps you can note that it is arranged in direct opposite to the thread we are dealing upon over the likeness to Manding and other weapons across the region...and that in the first instance you align this detail below in italic; Note: Mandinka swords from West Africa also have a leaf-shaped scabbard, but there are apparently no strong cultural links that would have influenced the design of the kaskara’s scabbard.] and that further on you suggest that it was Manding that passed on the flared scabbard at hajj to the Sudani at Hajj. pitt rivers museum think experts show it was the other way around but notwithstanding the direction it was transferred from would that not indicate a certain degree of liason between the two nations in contradiction of your earlier suggestion of little or no cultural links? Moreover would not the fact that both nations had adopted the Arabic alphabet be of some support to the contrary. Would not the proven catalysts of war, religion, trade, exploration have come under the broad brush of interaction and liaison/ cultural exchange? Other experts according to museum reports suggest that the scabbard was a crocodile form and was known across broad swathes of tribal Africa and that the reason for its geometric as opposed to animal design was owing to the rules for artistic impression in the religion and that leatherworkers were the first Manding to convert to Islam at least in the Manding homeland...but that Sudan converted earlier being much further east. Could it be that Manding and kaskara are not fighting weapons. We know that the higher ranking Sudani wearers of the silver hilts never used the kaskara to fight. Badge of office only. I see little evidence that any of these were weapons as such save the possibility that the cross guard is a fighting sword marker in other countries...yet equally I could point out that many of these kaskara when adopted by the Mahdi had very flimsy blades and more designed as carriers of Islamic quotations and edicts rather than battle swords yet they has the same guards.. Alam in miniature carried by thousands of warriors as inspiration and religious guidance etc If the Manding was not a weapon then what was the role of the kaskara? Was it not the case that although carried into war they were originally not actual battle swords? Naturally the weapon which did most damage was the spear and lance but the question raises the point of what was the primary use for this so called weapon..Was it not purely psychological? Thus I think that is two questions of some importance~ 1. What evidence is there that the kaskara was a fighting weapon? 2. Which way was the transfer of technology/style (to the East or West) and surely the influence was present as the two countries were in fact culturally linked ?