Is this a common Arab Saif ?

fernando · 21st March 2018, 04:58 PM

Great input, Teodor: thanks a lot

.
It is always interesting (and challenging) to check on the difference between assuming the provenance of things as being an inequivocal fact, versus their transcontinental influence carried by those who travelled among nations for whatever reasons.
It is fascinating to realize that, this type of Saif would be Arab by culture, Yemenite by nationality, Moroccan (Zanzibarian) in its grip shape, its scabbard decoration styled (and even originated) in India, as could also so be the blade style ... and even forging.
Interestingly the historic Yemenite Jews (Temani), famous silver smiths, that we know used to make weapons scabbards, are not called by authors to this saga.

Let those with more knowledge, and willing, correct the (my) assumptions misplaced above

.

TVV · 21st March 2018, 08:01 PM

Based on existing photographic evidence, I think it is fairly safe to attribute these swords to Southern Yemen. As for where the scabbards were manufactured, I will defer this to other form members - we have experts in Indian arms and their decorative art. As you point out, there were certainly enough highly skilled silversmiths in Yemen during the 19th century, who produced beautiful jambiya scabbards and various jewelry, and who certainly had the ability to produced sword scabbards as well.

Interestingly enough, Elgood does not mention much about the blades and their origin. They are invariably slightly curved, with a single fuller and relatively short. Unlike Maghrebi or Zanzibari/Omani nimcha hilted swords, which have a wide variety of blade shapes and lengths, these seem to follow a pattern.

fernando · 21st March 2018, 08:38 PM

Thank you for the excelent points, Teodor

.

Kubur · 21st March 2018, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Based on existing photographic evidence, I think it is fairly safe to attribute these swords to Southern Yemen. As for where the scabbards were manufactured, I will defer this to other form members - we have experts in Indian arms and their decorative art. As you point out, there were certainly enough highly skilled silversmiths in Yemen during the 19th century, who produced beautiful jambiya scabbards and various jewelry, and who certainly had the ability to produced sword scabbards as well.

Pffff I feel better now

Fernando scabbard has some similarities with other Yemeni scabbards.
And if you look closer you'll see a consistency between hilts and scabbards...

Kubur · 21st March 2018, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Interestingly enough, Elgood does not mention much about the blades and their origin. They are invariably slightly curved, with a single fuller and relatively short. Unlike Maghrebi or Zanzibari/Omani nimcha hilted swords, which have a wide variety of blade shapes and lengths, these seem to follow a pattern.

Should I comment this blade?

A last point I think that Fernando blade is chromed not polished, but i don't see any problem with that.

TVV · 21st March 2018, 09:42 PM

We probably should, starting with the question - do you think the blade is original to the mounts? We know there were a lot of Ethiopian swords imported in Yemen for the rhino horn hilts, with the blades then mounted with a variety of hilts and re-sold.

Kubur · 21st March 2018, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

We probably should, starting with the question - do you think the blade is original to the mounts? We know there were a lot of Ethiopian swords imported in Yemen for the rhino horn hilts, with the blades then mounted with a variety of hilts and re-sold.

That's the whole point Theodor, an Ethiopian blade on a Yemeni Sword...
I'm very happy with that...

Martin Lubojacky · 22nd March 2018, 10:39 AM

I think you have bought extra-piece of its kind Fernando. Congratulations.
I hope I may add picture of the similar sword I bought years ago from Artzi, to your thread. I think my blade was made in Arab country - there is some mark like "V" on it. Unfortunately I have only old photos on flash disc with me (on the top of it in a group with another sabres, - I can make another pictures/closeups - but in July earliest).
I think your blade is not chromed. Could possibly be nickeled. (But maybe also only highly polished.)

22nd March 2018, 10:39 AM	#8
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 841	I think you have bought extra-piece of its kind Fernando. Congratulations. I hope I may add picture of the similar sword I bought years ago from Artzi, to your thread. I think my blade was made in Arab country - there is some mark like "V" on it. Unfortunately I have only old photos on flash disc with me (on the top of it in a group with another sabres, - I can make another pictures/closeups - but in July earliest). I think your blade is not chromed. Could possibly be nickeled. (But maybe also only highly polished.) Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

21st March 2018, 04:58 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Great input, Teodor: thanks a lot . It is always interesting (and challenging) to check on the difference between assuming the provenance of things as being an inequivocal fact, versus their transcontinental influence carried by those who travelled among nations for whatever reasons. It is fascinating to realize that, this type of Saif would be Arab by culture, Yemenite by nationality, Moroccan (Zanzibarian) in its grip shape, its scabbard decoration styled (and even originated) in India, as could also so be the blade style ... and even forging. Interestingly the historic Yemenite Jews (Temani), famous silver smiths, that we know used to make weapons scabbards, are not called by authors to this saga. Let those with more knowledge, and willing, correct the (my) assumptions misplaced above .

21st March 2018, 08:01 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,622	Based on existing photographic evidence, I think it is fairly safe to attribute these swords to Southern Yemen. As for where the scabbards were manufactured, I will defer this to other form members - we have experts in Indian arms and their decorative art. As you point out, there were certainly enough highly skilled silversmiths in Yemen during the 19th century, who produced beautiful jambiya scabbards and various jewelry, and who certainly had the ability to produced sword scabbards as well. Interestingly enough, Elgood does not mention much about the blades and their origin. They are invariably slightly curved, with a single fuller and relatively short. Unlike Maghrebi or Zanzibari/Omani nimcha hilted swords, which have a wide variety of blade shapes and lengths, these seem to follow a pattern.

21st March 2018, 08:38 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you for the excelent points, Teodor .

21st March 2018, 09:42 PM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,622	We probably should, starting with the question - do you think the blade is original to the mounts? We know there were a lot of Ethiopian swords imported in Yemen for the rhino horn hilts, with the blades then mounted with a variety of hilts and re-sold.