Dayak Spear with Aso-motives

mmontoro · 24th March 2006, 04:25 AM

Beautiful piece - thank you for sharing it and the reference images.

M.

VVV · 24th March 2006, 08:09 AM

Vandoo,

The spear is 232 cm with its hardwood shaft and the spearpoint, without tang, is 40 cm.
So it has the lenght, size and traditional rattan sidemount as you described.
The spearpoint was loose when I recieved it and I don't dare to push in the tang all the way in case it would destroy the old rattan bindings.

John,

I recognise your lack of excitment. The same for me regarding Scandinavian knives and the related Finnish Puukkos (sp?) that the US collectors find exotic. Never even heard about that name before joining this list.
If you ask a Swede for a Puukko he will either serve you a chocolate milk drink or start to laugh because Pucko is slang for an idiot.
Mandau isn't an Iban word. Maybe they know it as Ilang?
But traditionally Ibans didn't carry Mandaus until the 19th C when it was adopted from other Dayak tribes. Niabor, Langgai Tinggang and later Jimpul are the traditional Iban Parangs. And the more ritual Pedang that looks like the Batak Piso Podang.

Michael

John · 24th March 2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

John,

...Mandau isn't an Iban word. Maybe they know it as Ilang?

But traditionally Ibans didn't carry Mandaus until the 19th C when it was adopted from other Dayak tribes. Niabor, Langgai Tinggang and later Jimpul are the traditional Iban Parangs. And the more ritual Pedang that looks like the Batak Piso Podang.

Michael

That explains it ie Mandau not being an Iban (or Sea Dayak) word. Any idea what word would it be and how the term came to be known? Well, the few Ibans I enquired with were no experts but they loosely call the sword an Ilang or Pedang Ilang.

And thanks for the info Michael and sorry to be of hardly any help.

VVV · 24th March 2006, 10:45 AM

John,

Thanks for helping me reconfirm that my sources on the vocabulary is correct.
I assume you mean Ilang or Parang(!) Ilang, not Pedang Ilang?

On Mandau I don't remember at the moment what tribe/s it comes from but I think it's from Kalimantan. And it probably became popular as a generic term because of the early Europeans who wrote about Borneo?
The Kayan word f.i. is Malat/Malab.
Tromp use the word Mandau in his article published in 1887 and probably inspired Hein to do the same in his book on Dayak art published in 1890?

Michael

John · 24th March 2006, 11:20 AM

Well, I'm merely an instrument conveying what I've been told and did remember the Iban guy (from Sarawak) telling me Pedang Ilang although another could well calls it a parang Ilang. But in all cases the word Ilang were used. In no absolute terms, I think Ilang is the more correct and pedang and parang are more loose terminology used here and there generally depending the term/vocabulary an average layman speaker is most familiar with.

VANDOO · 24th March 2006, 04:43 PM

IT WOULD STAND TO REASON THAT SPEAR BLADES WOULD SOMETIMES BE GIVEN DECORATION, BECAUSE DECORATED SWORD BLADES ARE NOT RARE AND THE METAL WORKERS WERE VERY SKILLED. I IMAGINE THE REASON FOR MOST NOT HAVING ANY DECORATION IS BECAUSE OF COST, ONLY SOMEONE WITH THE WEALTH OR POWER WOULD HAVE THE EXTRA MONEY TO SPEND ON IT.

IT IS ALSO POSSIBLE THAT THE SOCIETY WOULD NOT ALLOW A PERSON TO HAVE THE DECORATION OR TO ADD IT TO A BLADE UNLESS THEY HAD EARNED THE HONOR THRU SOME DEED OR HAD ATTAINED THE WEALTH AND POSITION TO QUALIFY.
OUTSIDERS DOING RESEARCH IN STRANGE SOCIETYS WHERE THEY DON'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE OFTEN RELYING ON INTERPERTERS WHO HAVE NO SKILL OR TRAINING THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FORIGNER THEY WORK FOR OR THE SOCIETYS THEY ARE STUDYING, UNDER SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES IT IS VERY EASY TO MAKE MISTAKES. FOR EXAMPLE A RESEARCHER ASKS INTERPRETER WHAT THE CHIEF CALLS HIS SWORD, THE CHIEF SAYS HE NAMED IT GEORGE, THE RESEARCHER WRITES HIS PAPER AND FOR MANY YEARS ALL FORIGNERS REFER TO ALL THE SWORDS FROM THE AREA AS GEORGE. THE LOCALS WONDER WHY ALL THE FORIGNERS ALWAYS CALL THIER PEDANG ILANGS GEORGE?

Dajak · 24th March 2006, 08:03 PM

Hi Michael I like the spearhead so if you wanna part it you have my email address

It is rare to have a spear head like yours because there are not much more left.

An mandau was easy to take back but spears off this lengt are difficult to take with you.

I have 2 different spears but not so beautiful as yours.

24th March 2006, 08:03 PM	#7
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	Hi Michael I like the spearhead so if you wanna part it you have my email address It is rare to have a spear head like yours because there are not much more left. An mandau was easy to take back but spears off this lengt are difficult to take with you. I have 2 different spears but not so beautiful as yours. Last edited by Dajak; 25th March 2006 at 01:17 AM.

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24th March 2006, 04:25 AM	#1
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Beautiful piece - thank you for sharing it and the reference images. M.

24th March 2006, 08:09 AM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Vandoo, The spear is 232 cm with its hardwood shaft and the spearpoint, without tang, is 40 cm. So it has the lenght, size and traditional rattan sidemount as you described. The spearpoint was loose when I recieved it and I don't dare to push in the tang all the way in case it would destroy the old rattan bindings. John, I recognise your lack of excitment. The same for me regarding Scandinavian knives and the related Finnish Puukkos (sp?) that the US collectors find exotic. Never even heard about that name before joining this list. If you ask a Swede for a Puukko he will either serve you a chocolate milk drink or start to laugh because Pucko is slang for an idiot. Mandau isn't an Iban word. Maybe they know it as Ilang? But traditionally Ibans didn't carry Mandaus until the 19th C when it was adopted from other Dayak tribes. Niabor, Langgai Tinggang and later Jimpul are the traditional Iban Parangs. And the more ritual Pedang that looks like the Batak Piso Podang. Michael

24th March 2006, 10:45 AM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	John, Thanks for helping me reconfirm that my sources on the vocabulary is correct. I assume you mean Ilang or Parang(!) Ilang, not Pedang Ilang? On Mandau I don't remember at the moment what tribe/s it comes from but I think it's from Kalimantan. And it probably became popular as a generic term because of the early Europeans who wrote about Borneo? The Kayan word f.i. is Malat/Malab. Tromp use the word Mandau in his article published in 1887 and probably inspired Hein to do the same in his book on Dayak art published in 1890? Michael

24th March 2006, 11:20 AM	#5
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Well, I'm merely an instrument conveying what I've been told and did remember the Iban guy (from Sarawak) telling me Pedang Ilang although another could well calls it a parang Ilang. But in all cases the word Ilang were used. In no absolute terms, I think Ilang is the more correct and pedang and parang are more loose terminology used here and there generally depending the term/vocabulary an average layman speaker is most familiar with.

24th March 2006, 04:43 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT WOULD STAND TO REASON THAT SPEAR BLADES WOULD SOMETIMES BE GIVEN DECORATION, BECAUSE DECORATED SWORD BLADES ARE NOT RARE AND THE METAL WORKERS WERE VERY SKILLED. I IMAGINE THE REASON FOR MOST NOT HAVING ANY DECORATION IS BECAUSE OF COST, ONLY SOMEONE WITH THE WEALTH OR POWER WOULD HAVE THE EXTRA MONEY TO SPEND ON IT. IT IS ALSO POSSIBLE THAT THE SOCIETY WOULD NOT ALLOW A PERSON TO HAVE THE DECORATION OR TO ADD IT TO A BLADE UNLESS THEY HAD EARNED THE HONOR THRU SOME DEED OR HAD ATTAINED THE WEALTH AND POSITION TO QUALIFY. OUTSIDERS DOING RESEARCH IN STRANGE SOCIETYS WHERE THEY DON'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE OFTEN RELYING ON INTERPERTERS WHO HAVE NO SKILL OR TRAINING THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND THE FORIGNER THEY WORK FOR OR THE SOCIETYS THEY ARE STUDYING, UNDER SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES IT IS VERY EASY TO MAKE MISTAKES. FOR EXAMPLE A RESEARCHER ASKS INTERPRETER WHAT THE CHIEF CALLS HIS SWORD, THE CHIEF SAYS HE NAMED IT GEORGE, THE RESEARCHER WRITES HIS PAPER AND FOR MANY YEARS ALL FORIGNERS REFER TO ALL THE SWORDS FROM THE AREA AS GEORGE. THE LOCALS WONDER WHY ALL THE FORIGNERS ALWAYS CALL THIER PEDANG ILANGS GEORGE?