kris identification needed

[Paul B.]

Thanks gentlemen and I will add a few more pics later.

@ Alan: is this the Solo Gayaman from Jensen? I checked the disk and only came across this fig. 68 and it might have a double hanging down lip but the pic is to vague to be sure.

[Paul B.]

Sizes: 12,5 cm wide / 41 cm tall.

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Paul, yes, that's the Jensen one I had in mind.

The blade is Segaluh, but in my mind I had this complete keris as Madura East Jawa, but with the Segaluh blade? Maybe not. Been a long while since I've seen the pic. Tell me, is that the full pic? No pendok? I thought I remembered a Madura pendok. Maybe this thing is a montage. One thing is certain, not Solo.

The length would seem to rule out anything associated with Bali on your keris.

[Paul B.]

The pic from the disk added as a printscreen. The pendok (pimped?) has a strong Madurese vibe.
Again a poor pic.
BTW> My disk got stuck also, I bought a new one and saved the content as PDF files and I can search trhu it much quicker and it won't fail anymore!

[Paul B.]

Here are some more pics.

Remarks:
Why rule out Bali? The size of another typical Bali kris fits within the paramters?
Besides the elevation seen on the gandar (not perfectly straight) is a feature that speaks for it so is the somewhat similar mata ideng.
A blade with a max of 38 cm would fit in.
The slot opening shows a wide opening. Sizes: 8,5 x 1,3 cm.
It still puzzles me...

Last pic shows a Banten kris with double lip too. Not sure if that is the right path we should search.

[A. G. Maisey]

Kai:- thanks for your clarification, I understand what you mean now.

Yes, the ladrangs do have what you are calling a "double lip", but I have not seen anything similar to Paul's gayam. I'm afraid I am unable to transfer characteristics from one wrongko form to another wrongko form, to do so would be to disallow what I have been taught.

However, what you are doing is probably quite valid, after all, Cirebon is not a part of the "Land of Jawa", and once you move from Javanese core values the way of appraisal that I have been taught is not really applicable.

Paul:- yes, that was the picture in my mind.

I only mentioned Bali because I was thinking in terms of far east or north east Jawa, where there is a lot of Bali influence, yes, there are shorter Bali keris, but I've never seen anything like this associated with Bali. If your wrongko had been longer I might have continued to entertain the idea of Bali, but now I understand what you and Kai regard as the double lip, I'm inclined to accept the idea of Sunda influence.

Yes, I understand that there are ways around the Jensen problem, I did have it on my external hard drive for my old computer, but the HD packed up years ago. I seldom find a need for Jensen, my interests do not coincide with the way in which Jensen treats the keris, he looks at it from a perspective that ceased to interest me much a long time ago. But it used to be useful from time to time to help me understand what some other people were talking about. I'll probably borrow a copy from a friend and put it into my computer.

[kai]

Hello Alan,

Yes, the ladrangs do have what you are calling a "double lip", but I have not seen anything similar to Paul's gayam.

Yes, Paul's certainly is very unusual. (And he came up with that description - not claiming any authorship here... )

I'm afraid I am unable to transfer characteristics from one wrongko form to another wrongko form, to do so would be to disallow what I have been taught.

I'm aware of their different functions but did not realize that they represent completely different cultural environments or encompass unrelated sets of motifs/social meanings? Could you possibly explain the traditional Jawa POV, maybe in a separate thread? Thanks heaps in advance!

Regards,
Kai