The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

[fernando]

Old 27th December 2007, 04:39 AM

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Thought I would look further into the rather esoteric 'Paternoster' blades, which may have some remote associations with numeric dot arrangements found on European blades.
In discussing various methods, whether genuinely effective or not in lightening blades in the 15th and 16th centuries in Europe, Burton ("Book of the Sword", p.136) describes these 'paternoster' blades. Apparantly the numeric arrangements of depressions placed on these blades were termed 'paternosters' because the dots in number suggested the beads in rosaries. He notes that these blades were "...fitted with round depressions which enabled the pious to count the number of his 'vain repititions' even in the dark'. While this practice seems somewhat doubtful, the association does show the implications of religious symbolism imbued in these early blades, in this case I believe that Germany was the origin of many of these.

Although obviously not 'markings', I thought that the numeric symbolism might be pertinant.

Best regards,
Jim
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[fernando]

Old 4th January 2008, 09:14 PM

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

Something interesting I found on the I.H.S.

I.H.S. is the "...monogram of the name of Jesus in Greek 'Iesous'.
'H' is not the Roman 'aitch' but the capital form of the Greek 'eta'.
The mistaken notion that these initials correspond to Roman letters gave rise to the erroneous interpretation that I.H.S. is an acronym for 'Iesus Hominum Salvator' (Jesus, saviour of men) or 'I have suffered'.

from "A Dictionary of Classical, Biblical and Literary Allusions", A.Lass, D.Kiremidjian & R.Goldstein, N.Y. 1987, p.122.

Since these initials do seem to occur on arms and armor occasionally, this seemed interesting.
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[fernando]

Old 4th January 2008, 10:38 PM

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal


That's right, Jim,
As Jeff has quoted in post # 112, a Jesuit symbol or, better said, ( if i may, Jeff ) a symbol adopted by Jesuits, once its origins date back to much earlier times, like the IV century, appearing for example in catacombs.
They also call this symbol a christogram.
Oh boy, the Internet is a miracle
Fernando

(missing attachments)
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[fernando]

Old 5th January 2008, 05:01 AM

Posted by:
Jim McDougall
EAA Research Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66

It sure is Fernando!

Interesting illustration of the IHS with the cross, and it seems very much in line with a lot of the markings we are reviewing. I wonder if a 'Christogram' like this would appear as a marking on weapons, I dont recall seeing any exactly like this, but many quite close.

All very best regards,
Jim
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[fernando]

Old 21st April 2008, 04:46 PM

Posted by:
TVV
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area

For future reference, here is a picture of the markings on a blade, mounted with a Moroccan hilt:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attac...tid=28907&stc=1

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[fernando]

Old 21st April 2008, 05:30 PM

Posted by:
CourseEight
Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Coral Springs, FL

That's a good idea, I'll toss in a link to my Ottoman naval dirk with what appears to be a French smallsword blade (or thusly inspired):

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6263

,

[fernando]

Old 27th April 2008, 04:10 PM

Posted by:
kronckew
Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate,
Rm. 101, Glos. UK:


feeling devilish, i thought i'd throw these in to the pot.

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