The Sinhalese Kastane: Its Development, Decoration and Symbolism

[David]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

I have to say ...or should I say point out? That both these complex answers on the subject of Crosses are on completely the wrong thread. My advice would be that the correct thread is ~

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002

~ where Crosses are being aired relevant to West African swords.

LOL! Well, I have to say...it was you Ibrahiim, who raised the topic when you revived this old thread in your post #159. You placed the link to that thread and wrote:
I further cast doubt upon the claim that this is a Christian cross. Again the reference above refers. It is more likely to be Voodoo inspired.
You further press this question in post #161:
I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?
So if you truly think our responses are on the wrong thread you might want to ask yourself why you continue to encourage the discussion here.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by David

LOL! Well, I have to say...it was you Ibrahiim, who raised the topic when you revived this old thread in your post #159. You placed the link to that thread and wrote:
I further cast doubt upon the claim that this is a Christian cross. Again the reference above refers. It is more likely to be Voodoo inspired.
You further press this question in post #161:
I would be pleased to see a proof regarding the Christian Cross in the blade as so far as is understood this is a Voodoo geometry although any light you can throw on it other than the author writing that this is a Christian Cross related to those on Pharaohic Tombs?
So if you truly think our responses are on the wrong thread you might want to ask yourself why you continue to encourage the discussion here.

David Thank you for posting your detailed work on the cross situation albeit on the wrong thread...which I hope can be remedied smartly.

Although it is plain to see that I was originally writing in context not out of it. In fact it was quite relevant as I was looking back with the thought of damage control in mind and to correct anything I felt needed attention... The West African Machette is clearly in that category since in view of post at #80. placed on this thread. it is a clearly out of sync. picture with spurious (at best) detail about West African/Portuguese Sinhalese influence unless you agree with the proposition that is?

But it is good that at least you now recognize that the Cross discussion belongs on another thread as it is relevant to West African detail...On the other thread in fact you will see clearly that I concur with the idea of the Portuguese influence and place my own research behind that premise... although I doubt much of the constructed work by others that the influence is Pharoaic or because it came down the trans Saharan highway..

SEE CORRECT thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002.

I do not encourage discussion here on this subject ...it is the wrong thread unless you are deliberate in placing it / chasing it here...? The threads are a mess because of this misplacement. Look at it from a logical viewpoint of library content...?

Whilst there is excellent detail on the said posts they are woefully misplaced. Can a consensus not be arrived at to sort this raveled mix up out?

[David]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Rather than hack the player how about focussing on the message... Although it is plain to see that I was originally writing in context not out of it. In fact it was quite relevant in view of post at #80. placed on this thread. a clearly out of sinc. picture with spurious (at bast) detail about West African/Portuguese Sinhalese influence unless you agree with the proposition that is?

But it is good that at least you now recognize that the Cross discussion belongs on another thread as it is relevant to West African detail...

SEE CORRECT thread at http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23002.

I do not encourage discussion here on this subject ...it is the wrong thread unless you are deliberate in placing it / chasing it here...? The threads are a mess because of this misplacement. Look at it from a logical viewpoint of library content...

Whilst there is excellent detail on the said posts they are woefully misplaced. Can a consensus not be arrived at to sort this raveled mix up out?

Ibrahiim, everything i have written here is in direct response to information YOU have brought up within the context of THIS thread. I have no interest whatsoever in continuing this little back and forth we are currently engaged in nor any interest in transferring my comments to another thread where you believe it would be more appropriately placed. This "raveled mix-up" is entirely yours my friend. You can accept it and continue or simply move along. Thanks for playing.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by David

Ibrahiim, everything i have written here is in direct response to information YOU have brought up within the context of THIS thread. I have no interest whatsoever in continuing this little back and forth we are currently engaged in nor any interest in transferring my comments to another thread where you believe it would be more appropriately placed. This "raveled mix-up" is entirely yours my friend. You can accept it and continue or simply move along. Thanks for playing.

Sir, You reverse away from discussion but delight in hacking the player not the ball...? You are in a spotlight here and refuse to even take the field. It is a shame. Your lack of interest is noted. I will indeed take this on myself.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

THE KASTANE . Its Architecture.

I present here an interesting write up on a sold item see http://www.icollector.com/A-FINE-PRE...WORD_i15525534 where it states~

Quote"An exceptional example of classic form, wrought entirely of silver. The hilt elaborately chiseled with scrollwork, the pommel a fully-modeled makara head with ruby eyes, the guard with five further monsterheads, and the face of a fanged demon on the knucklebow. The lightly-curved, single-edged blade with blunt ricasso. In its finely embellished silver scabbard decorated en suite with the hilt, the terminal likewise formed as a monster head, and inscribed, MUDALIYAR B.P. AMERASINGHE. With its handwrought silver chain baldric terminating in a large filigreed bead. Second half of the 19th century.The term 'mudaliyar' is a Tamil honorific, generally applied to a high-ranking member of the military or government. Overall length 60 cm. Condition I." Unquote.

The proviso here being that the use of words by auctioneers and museums may vary considerably in describing the Deities and that a sympathetic viewpoint has already been adopted here on thread. Interesting is the silver chain baldric although something not noted by the auctioneers is The Humanoid Face, outward facing, sometimes refered to as The Humanoid Crocodile on the Knuckleguard which is another Deity not always present but every bit as fascinating. I think this is the Kirtimukha. With this in mind readers may note the extraordinary descriptive given at #49 to which I would add; Lions Head form... in many examples.

Unusually the so called Quilon structures(Vajra) are wide in this late model as opposed to earlier form which are close together. In this case has the European style of Quilon been adopted? Personally and since this was not a fighting weapon (court and badge of office only) I do not think so but it is noted in the margin for others to comment.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

In previous discussions, there has been the illustration(attached) with an entry in a book by Mr. Rainer Daehnhardt, which shows a sword (cutlass) with a cutlass type blade distinctive to Dahomey, West Africa. What is notable here is that its hilt is remarkably similar to the Sinhalese kastane with lionhead.
It has been suggested that this hybrid may reveal possible links between these vastly distant locations or possible developmental influences.
Actually I believe it is simply a notation to the similarity to a Ceylonese hilt.

It is well known to us as students of ethnographica that such instances of items of distinctly regional or cultural form may turn up occasionally in situations where they are completely incongruent in areas far distant and disconnected from their point of origin.

This seems a case of the union of a foreign or 'exotic' hilt being joined to a Dahomean blade in the oft used convention of such hybridization with diplomatically oriented swords.

Some time ago in discussions here there was a case of what appears a hanger type sword of kastane form (but has been rehilted it seems without the lionhead) and shown described as a 'dragon sword', found in British Columbia in Canada. This was discussed in a book titled "Similkeen: The Pictograph Country" (Bill Barlee,1978) and other research revealed an inventory of 1836 of the Northwest Co. which included 12 'dragon swords'.
("Rocky Mountain Outfit, 1836, Fontanelle, Fitzpatrick &Co.", papers of the American Fur Company, Reel 7, vols. Y & Z, Missouri Historical Society).

It is compelling to think of these as examples of 'kastane' which had arrived somehow in this unusual setting, with the resounding question of 'how did they get here?'.

In one explanation, it is noted there was an ill fated Spanish expedition into these regions mid 18th century (suggesting the term 'turtle people' in native legend there referred to the cuirasses of the Spaniards. It is conceivable that the Spanish had acquired some of these Ceylonese swords via their colonies in the Philippines, as trade entrepots there of course would have networked with others trading in Ceylon.
* shown is the route of the Hasekura embassy of 17th c. where a kastane was acquired from the King of Spain, either in Spain or Philippines.

However, the trade company case with 12 swords listed as 'dragon' swords seems much more likely conditionally. Some suggestion has been made that the term 'dragon' may be a contracted use of the term 'dragoon' of course referring to the heavy cavalry sabres. There is always that possibility, except that no other examples of these dragoon swords are known in these contexts. The was a favor for shorter weapons such as hangers, and the 'broadswords' listed were actually short, heavy artillery sidearms (the term broadsword was still generically used in those times).


Returning to the potential origins of the Sinhalese kastane form, an interesting example of dagger/short sword is shown in "Arts of the Muslim Knight", Furasiyya Foundation, 2008 (p.206, #197). It is listed as Deccani, probably Bahamanid dynasty and of 15th century.
It seems that these Deccani influences, the downturned quillons with Makara heads, and the general configuration of the hilt pommel and knuckleguard are remarkably compelling as a proto-kastane form.

These influences diffusing via Tamils to the east, provided a compelling conduit with their trade and diplomatic contacts into Ceylon with the central kingdom of Kandy. The artisans and craftsman of this kingdom were well known for their work on the piha kaetta knives so key in royal regalia, and apparently development of the kastane into a sword of status as well.
Here again, certain elements and influences were syncretically combined in the form of hilt we know existed before c. 1600.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Jim, Thank you for your post. I remember the Hasekura adventure and how he acquired the weapons in the Philipines. One of my questions about the so called Kastane he purchased is still being looked at since the blade is non typical and although a quillons style is fitted the blade seems to be much wider...similar in a way to the stone frieze blade. It (the Sendai Museum weapon) looks suspiciously like a Chinese blade.

Regarding the West African Dahomey sword ..or the write up with the weapon... it is conveniently some would say willy-nilly even... given the write up as having certainly bounced back from a deployment with the Portuguese Battle Fleet from Sri Lanka and having influence from their armoury... from the Kastane . This is doubtful since why would a machette tribal sword make such a journey and be given this most peculiar treatment? It appears as a flambouyant idea straight from the head of the author without any proof but as a seemingly fanciful notion.

On the other hand concerning the Cross cut into the broad leaf style of blade; it is plausible that some shades of Portuguese influence in their long association in the region may have occurred and wall art in caves bears this out to some degree. Black Crab swords with similar crosses are further evidence of such liaison but as for the weapons going off on tour with the Portuguese Armada for me it is a bridge too far...That does not rule out a hilt being brought back from such an adventure and possibly being presented to a chief... but that is a very different notion. If the hilt is not a bring back from the Indian Ocean then where is it from?... I have suggested that this is either a home grown carved big cat favoured by chieftains in Dahomey regions or perhaps a Storta Hilt perhaps as a gift. Looking at the skills of the Ivory carvers in the region I suggest that this is the origin. Home grown in other words.

Your inclusion of the South Indian sword from arts of the Muslim Knights is amazing. Here is a direct link in form from Sri Lanka's nearest neighbour even though the style of religion was slightly different the mirroring onto this weapon is clear and one which I would base my next survey... and refer to your excellent addition here. The net result of such findings although I need to show the architecture as wholly linked regionally it would in my view cast serious doubt on external influence and positive proof of the Kastane as entirely Home Grown (exempt the European later blade replacements)

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.