bugis sword

[La Pagaru]

This is a buginese sword beautiful PAMOR and antique rare

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by La Pagaru

This is a buginese sword beautiful PAMOR and antique rare

Beautiful it is but I doubt it is antique. I believe it is very recent production.

Of course I might be wrong, but again I'm pretty sure it is new... brand new!

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Beautiful it is but I doubt it is antique. I believe it is very recent production.

Of course I might be wrong, but again I'm pretty sure it is new... brand new!

Dear Mmariuegmioc
Of course this antique!

[La Pagaru]

This one is new

[Sajen]

It's strong Buginese influenced but found mainly on Sumbawa. Don't think that this a new sword, it's cleaned and the blade has received a warangan. Very nice short Sumbawa sword. See here my one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=sumbawa

Best regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Of course I might be wrong, but again I'm pretty sure it is new... brand new!

Sorry Marius,

I am pretty sure you are wrong!

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Sorry Marius,

I am pretty sure you are wrong!

Ada yang nolongin GW! Wkkwkw

[La Pagaru]

Dear sajen

This picture for u ,, my be u know this one

[mariusgmioc]

Whether I am correct or wrong is less important than the fact they are superb blades. Never disputed that!

Yet, I am still of the oppinion it is a new blade.

Besides... even paranoids have the right of oppinion.

PS: The pamor of the new one is absolutely stunning!

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Whether I am correct or wrong is less important than the fact they are superb blades. Never disputed that!

Yet, I am still of the oppinion it is a new blade.

Besides... even paranoids have the right of oppinion.

PS: The pamor of the new one is absolutely stunning!

Dear mariuegmioc

maybe you should look at the sword and the dagger of our comrades

Regards LP

[La Pagaru]

Dear all
This one my be u want to see

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by La Pagaru

Ada yang nolongin GW! Wkkwkw

For others, La Pagaru says in the heading "akhirnya" mean "finally" and in down "someone helped me". Only to prevent confusion.

Tidak apa apa La Pagaru!

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by La Pagaru

Dear sajen

This picture for u ,, my be u know this one

Should I? But think indeed to have seen it before.

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Should I? But think indeed to have seen it before.

Dear sajen,
I think u know that sword, very familiar with u I think. Hehe

[kai]

Hello Detlef,

It's strong Buginese influenced but found mainly on Sumbawa.

Actually, this is indeed an old Gowa/Bone style sword that got in vogue on Sumbawa due to the strong dynastic and cultural influences on the latter island. It is also fairly common for expat communities (and similar cultures/groups) to often keep established patterns longer than the originating culture which tends to evolve new trends and fads...

There are enough old high-end examples known from Sulawesi to establish that this style originated from there; it is also part of regalia on both, originating and dependant kingdoms.

Regards,
Kai

[Sajen]

[QUOTE=kai]Hello Detlef,

It's strong Buginese influenced but found mainly on Sumbawa.[/url]
Actually, this is indeed an old Gowa/Bone style sword that got in vogue on Sumbawa due to the strong dynastic and cultural influences on the latter island. It is also fairly common for expat communities (and similar cultures/groups) to often keep established patterns longer than the originating culture which tends to evolve new trends and fads...

There are enough old high-end examples known from Sulawesi to establish that this style originated from here; it is also part of regalia on both, originating and dependant kingdoms.

Regards,
Kai

Hello Kai,

yes I know about this, have seen old pictures from Gowa/Bone regalia with this swords. But think indeed that the sword in question originated from Sumbawa but who know exactly.

Regards,
Detlef

[A. G. Maisey]

Ma'afkan saya La Pagaru, tapi singkatan yg di post nomer 7 sangat kurang jelas.

Apakah artinya:- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Mungkin lebih baik kalau La Pagaru tidak pakai singkatan-singkatan.

( English:- Forgive me La Pagaru, but the abbreviations in post number 7 are very unclear.

What is the meaning of :- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Maybe it is better if La Pagaru does not use abbreviations.)

[Battara]

Thank you Alan.

It would be great of we kept to English, or at least provide a translation.......

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, I agree, but for somebody like La Pagaru, I do think that the short messages with translation by a friend is adequate.

My post in B.I. and English is directed at the use of abbreviations.

A characteristic of B.I. is that it has a sort of military nature in that abbreviations are used extensively, the purpose was (supposedly) originally to exclude those who did not know what the abbreviations meant, from access to knowledge. This was generated by the militaristic nature of Indonesian society following freedom from colonial rule, but this use of abbreviations continues until today.

One major newspaper used to regularly update its readers with the new abbreviations. This use of abbreviations also occurs in conversation, and where a couple of people in a group have developed their own understanding of abbreviations a conversation between them can be almost totally incomprehensible. Something that in English communication can sometimes be regarded as extremely bad manners.

La Pagaru is clearly new to the use of English, and I am sure that as soon as he understands what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable in use of the English language, he will conform.

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Ma'afkan saya La Pagaru, tapi singkatan yg di post nomer 7 sangat kurang jelas.

Apakah artinya:- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Mungkin lebih baik kalau La Pagaru tidak pakai singkatan-singkatan.

( English:- Forgive me La Pagaru, but the abbreviations in post number 7 are very unclear.

What is the meaning of :- "--- GW! Wkkwkw" ?

Maybe it is better if La Pagaru does not use abbreviations.)

GW=gue=me
Wkkwkw=wekwekwek=hehehe=lol
(Old Jungle Saying: A good hunter must know his prey ..... )

Best,

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks Amuk.

"Gue" or "gua" is Jakarta dialect, also in use by some Indonesian Chinese populations. I recognise it, but have never used it, in fact I have not been to Jakarta since 1978, and the singkatan "GW" was not only unknown to me, but also unknown to three native speakers of B.I., one a 40 year old lady from Malang who arrived here in Australia only last week. Again, all three of these people are strangers to Jakarta, one from Solo, two from East Jawa, and all mature people with academic backgrounds.

The "Wkkwkw" was also unknown to the three native speakers. Is this also Jakarta dialect? Or is it a current colloquialism?

I very much appreciate your explanation, it demonstrates very clearly the fractured nature of B.I. Linguists tell us that Javanese is a non-standard language, and I suspect that if I knew other of the indigenous languages of Indonesia I would find a similar thing applied with these also. The way in which modern B.I. has developed seems to indicate that this propensity for creating one's own form of a public language is hardwired into the persona of the peoples of this country.

[La Pagaru]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Thanks Amuk.

"Gue" or "gua" is Jakarta dialect, also in use by some Indonesian Chinese populations. I recognise it, but have never used it, in fact I have not been to Jakarta since 1978, and the singkatan "GW" was not only unknown to me, but also unknown to three native speakers of B.I., one a 40 year old lady from Malang who arrived here in Australia only last week. Again, all three of these people are strangers to Jakarta, one from Solo, two from East Jawa, and all mature people with academic backgrounds.

The "Wkkwkw" was also unknown to the three native speakers. Is this also Jakarta dialect? Or is it a current colloquialism?

I very much appreciate your explanation, it demonstrates very clearly the fractured nature of B.I. Linguists tell us that Javanese is a non-standard language, and I suspect that if I knew other of the indigenous languages of Indonesia I would find a similar thing applied with these also. The way in which modern B.I. has developed seems to indicate that this propensity for creating one's own form of a public language is hardwired into the persona of the peoples of this country.

Dear Alan

sorry for the language that I use, maybe next time I have to use google translete to create more posts, once again I apologize
Regards LP

[A. G. Maisey]

No problem La Pagaru, and in fact, nothing to apologise for, I'm sure you just posted automatically, without considering that you might confuse by using non-standard language.

I don't know that Google translate is a good option, I find some of the translations from that very peculiar.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The "Wkkwkw" was also unknown to the three native speakers. Is this also Jakarta dialect? Or is it a current colloquialism?

Hello Alan, I was already fallen to sleep when started this current issue. I assume that you never have read short messages send by internet media from younger Indonesian people, like I am you would be unable to understand what's the meaning!
To answer your question, it's the second, I've seen this abbr. many times, I don't have a facebook page so I use now and then the one from my wife. First time I've seen such a message I've asked my wife which language this is!

Regards,
Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

No problem La Pagaru, and in fact, nothing to apologise for, I'm sure you just posted automatically, without considering that you might confuse by using non-standard language.

I don't know that Google translate is a good option, I find some of the translations from that very peculiar.

I can attest to the fact that Google translator does a horrible job with Bahasa Indonesian. However, part of the problem there undoubtably is this penchant of Indonesians in general to use non-standard forms of their language along with the common habit worldwide to abbreviate words for internet communication spurred on by platforms such as twitter and texting. Unfortunately these abbreviations vary from culture to culture and no online translators are capable of making much sense of them.
I would suggest, Andi, that you limit your wording to standard language forms and refrain from the use of local abbreviations if you hope to be universally understood. That way goole translator will at least have a chance at making something decipherable out of you posts when you translate them to English.

[A. G. Maisey]

You're dead right Detlef:- I do not engage in social media at any level, unless we regard this Forum or emails as social media, which I do not.

As for Indonesian social media messages?

No thank you very much.

I think David is right by identifying these abbreviations as a generational thing rather than as linguistic variation that applies to universal linguistic intercourse.

Re the Google translate thing David. Its not only Indonesian that it does funny things with, it is other languages as well, for instance Italian, Ukranian, Russian. Its OK on single words, but give a slab of text you do see some pretty funny things.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

As for Indonesian social media messages?

No thank you very much.