Keris Bugis discussion

Jean · 4th September 2016, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In respect of the silver work.

Kota Gede near Jogjakarta in Central Jawa is, I believe, the biggest, most experienced, most productive manufacturer of silver work in Indonesia, quality ranges from work that is second to none to quality that is pretty rough.

Celuk in Bali is probably producer number two.

The other two major silver work producing centres are Kendari in Sulawesi and Kotagadhang in Sumatra. By all accounts these two centres do not produce quality that is the equal of Kota Gede and Celuk. I have not seen work that I know to have come from either of these two places.

Hello Alan,
I own this Bugis style kris supposedly from Sumatra with a very high quality silver scabbard (very thick and finely embossed). It was purchased in Jakarta more than 20 years ago and was not brand new at that time (however the blade is much older than the scabbard and it was stained in Solo as the pamor was indistinct).
Where would you expect that the silver scabbard was made?
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 4th September 2016, 01:59 PM

Jean, I'm sorry, but I do not regard the work in this keris dress as being of particularly high quality. For this class of keris, it is pretty average. I apologise for my bluntness.

The embossing is good, solid, middle of the road quality, but the actual fabrication is severely lacking in attention to detail.

Please look particularly at the way that the ends of the top cross part (gambar, atasan) of the scabbard curve in to fit under the cap, and at the poor fit of the buntut to the gandar, additionally, the proportions of the gandar to the atasan are seemingly too narrow, and the hilt seems to be deficient in form, however these matters of proportion and form could be due to the angle at which the photo was taken. There is also the poor execution of the joint of atasan to gandar, it curves down, instead of being at a sharp angle.

To my eye this is Kota Gede work, but it was not made in Kota Gede, I believe it was made in a workshop in a kampung off Jln. Martodinoto a couple of kilometers out of the center of Jogja.

If I am correct, the man who did the fabrication, but not the embossing, passed to another world about 15-20 years ago. He was around 75-80 when he passed, but he was uncertain of exactly how old he was. He had been trained in Kota Gede and worked there prior to opening his own workshop.

Jean · 4th September 2016, 02:37 PM

Hello Alan,
Thank you for your frank and justified opinion, and the information that the scabbard was probably made in the Yogya area; it certainly explains that the proportions of the scabbard and shape of the hilt are not ideal indeed, however I still like this kris....
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 4th September 2016, 11:51 PM

Yes Jean, people mostly do not realise just how important and influential Ngayogjokarto is in the world of Indonesian silverwork. The area of Ngayogjokarto that is the silver working centre of the area is Kota Gede (Big Town).

Kota Gede silver work has a history going back to the establishment of the Kraton of Mataram there in the late 16th century.

I have been told, but I do not know how accurate this is, that all other silver working areas in Indonesia can be traced back to the original craftsmen coming from Kota Gede. I was told this by a man who is very highly placed in the Kota Gede hierarchy, so it would have been in his interests to claim this, but even so, it could well be true.

You would be very surprised by where some of the product of the Kota Gede craftsmen ends up, mostly the end sellers claim manufacture in other, more prestigious locations, such as -- just for example -- Florence in Italy.

A. G. Maisey · 5th September 2016, 01:46 PM

I've been thinking about what I wrote in my post # 8.

I think I've phrased what I said badly.

"All through S.E.Asia, in the Peninsula, Sumatra, along the North Coast of Jawa, in Lombok, in the further Eastern Islands, in scattered small islands throughout the Archipelago we can find keris blades that have the overall appearance (pawakan) of genuine Bugis blades, but that lack the flat faces and gusen of the genuine Bugis blade"

The Bugis people spread far and wide.

They carried their keris with them.

Over time the keris that were made in those places far from the Sulawesi homeland lost some of the details of the keris that were made in Sulawesi.

They were still Bugis keris, but Bugis keris made in places other than Sulawesi.

Does this make those slightly different keris any less Bugis in origin ?

Does it strip them of their Bugis heritage, so that they are no longer "Bugis"?

I rather think not.

The Bugis are a people, not a place.

Perhaps we should think of these other Bugis keris still as Bugis keris, but qualify that by adding something like:- "from a location outside Sulawesi"

Gustav · 6th September 2016, 10:22 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17886

A. G. Maisey · 6th September 2016, 11:32 PM

That hilt is the same type, but there are considerable differences in execution.

Still, Lombok might be a very good bet.

I believe that Lombok silverwork owes its existence to the Celuk tradition, and this work does look more like Celuk than Jogja in a few ways.

4th September 2016, 02:37 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Thank you for your frank and justified opinion, and the information that the scabbard was probably made in the Yogya area; it certainly explains that the proportions of the scabbard and shape of the hilt are not ideal indeed, however I still like this kris.... Regards Last edited by Jean; 4th September 2016 at 08:06 PM.

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4th September 2016, 01:59 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Jean, I'm sorry, but I do not regard the work in this keris dress as being of particularly high quality. For this class of keris, it is pretty average. I apologise for my bluntness. The embossing is good, solid, middle of the road quality, but the actual fabrication is severely lacking in attention to detail. Please look particularly at the way that the ends of the top cross part (gambar, atasan) of the scabbard curve in to fit under the cap, and at the poor fit of the buntut to the gandar, additionally, the proportions of the gandar to the atasan are seemingly too narrow, and the hilt seems to be deficient in form, however these matters of proportion and form could be due to the angle at which the photo was taken. There is also the poor execution of the joint of atasan to gandar, it curves down, instead of being at a sharp angle. To my eye this is Kota Gede work, but it was not made in Kota Gede, I believe it was made in a workshop in a kampung off Jln. Martodinoto a couple of kilometers out of the center of Jogja. If I am correct, the man who did the fabrication, but not the embossing, passed to another world about 15-20 years ago. He was around 75-80 when he passed, but he was uncertain of exactly how old he was. He had been trained in Kota Gede and worked there prior to opening his own workshop.

4th September 2016, 11:51 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes Jean, people mostly do not realise just how important and influential Ngayogjokarto is in the world of Indonesian silverwork. The area of Ngayogjokarto that is the silver working centre of the area is Kota Gede (Big Town). Kota Gede silver work has a history going back to the establishment of the Kraton of Mataram there in the late 16th century. I have been told, but I do not know how accurate this is, that all other silver working areas in Indonesia can be traced back to the original craftsmen coming from Kota Gede. I was told this by a man who is very highly placed in the Kota Gede hierarchy, so it would have been in his interests to claim this, but even so, it could well be true. You would be very surprised by where some of the product of the Kota Gede craftsmen ends up, mostly the end sellers claim manufacture in other, more prestigious locations, such as -- just for example -- Florence in Italy.

5th September 2016, 01:46 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I've been thinking about what I wrote in my post # 8. I think I've phrased what I said badly. "All through S.E.Asia, in the Peninsula, Sumatra, along the North Coast of Jawa, in Lombok, in the further Eastern Islands, in scattered small islands throughout the Archipelago we can find keris blades that have the overall appearance (pawakan) of genuine Bugis blades, but that lack the flat faces and gusen of the genuine Bugis blade" The Bugis people spread far and wide. They carried their keris with them. Over time the keris that were made in those places far from the Sulawesi homeland lost some of the details of the keris that were made in Sulawesi. They were still Bugis keris, but Bugis keris made in places other than Sulawesi. Does this make those slightly different keris any less Bugis in origin ? Does it strip them of their Bugis heritage, so that they are no longer "Bugis"? I rather think not. The Bugis are a people, not a place. Perhaps we should think of these other Bugis keris still as Bugis keris, but qualify that by adding something like:- "from a location outside Sulawesi"

6th September 2016, 10:22 PM	#6
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=17886

6th September 2016, 11:32 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	That hilt is the same type, but there are considerable differences in execution. Still, Lombok might be a very good bet. I believe that Lombok silverwork owes its existence to the Celuk tradition, and this work does look more like Celuk than Jogja in a few ways.