SOLO KRATON KERIS AUCTIONED / GIFT FROM JAVANESE ROYALS TO DUTCH BANKER

mariusgmioc · 6th August 2016, 11:19 PM

It looks like there is a mismatch between the kris and the scabbard...

I don't think it is new... but 19th century?! I doubt.

Battara · 7th August 2016, 02:43 AM

I maybe wrong, but it doesn't look royal to me.

Jean · 7th August 2016, 08:51 AM

May be the Dutch banker was an usurer or a crook?

The name seems to be written on the mendak and the selut is recent and of poor quality.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 7th August 2016, 12:39 PM

Good story.

In respect of "Royal" keris.

During the 1980's I saw and handled a number of keris that were indisputably "Royal" keris. They were held in the store rooms of the Surakarta Kraton and were keris that had been gifted to kraton officials, and to previous Susuhunans, and keris that had been made on order from the Kraton. In most cases these were very ordinary keris.

A Javanese "Royal" keris does not need to be super great to be legitimate.

This keris shown may well have spent time in a Kraton storeroom.

However, the dress is very, very pedestrian quality and the keris itself is poorly matched to the dress.

Again, this poor presentation is not at all unusual for something coming from the Surakarta Kraton. There are more than a few examples of very, very ordinary keris floating around, some of which are very famous ( and have been for a long time), are in museums, or during the 20th century were given to visiting heads of state and politicians.

I was once offered a keris that had been presented to a former Australian Prime Minister, not by a kraton, but by (I guess) a representative of the Indonesian Government. It was one notch above rubbish. Probably a good indication of how much respect that particular Aussie PM got from Jakarta.

Just because a keris has been presented to somebody, by somebody, it does not mean that its value is any more than the sum value of its individual parts.

Jean · 7th August 2016, 01:24 PM

Hello Alan,
Thank you for the interesting story & analysis, I agree that the blade is quite good but do you think that the ganja wulung is original or not? (difficult to assess from a picture of course).
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 7th August 2016, 02:29 PM

I don't like guessing Jean, but really, whether it is, or is not the very first gonjo fitted to the blade is not relevant in my opinion.

A keris can, and does, sometimes lose its gonjo often for culturally related reasons.

It is important that the gonjo be replaced competently.

It is unimportant that is has been replaced.

Think about it like this:- the blade is male : the gonjo is female, just as the wrongko is female : the male wilah is mated to the female elements of the complete keris and when all are together we have a societal symbol of the unity of male and female, just as a married man & woman are together representative of the required unity that makes a whole: man cannot be complete without woman, woman cannot be complete without man. Now, in the human man/woman unity if one part dies, it should be replaced so that the remaining part can once again be complete. In traditional thought, a woman should not continue to exist as a part of a community after the death of her husband, but if she removes herself from the community, or in later times takes a new husband, the unity is restored and the community is once again in balance. If the community is in balance, the danger to the cosmos of a state of non-balance is avoided.

The whole thing is really very simple. It is just a matter of understanding what the keris really is.

Frankly, I don't think this is much of a blade from the artistic perspective, its just a keris, nothing special, not bad, not good. But it is a keris, and if thought about in a cultural/societal context the important thing is that it does have a gonjo and that gonjo is suited to the wilah.

Rick · 7th August 2016, 10:50 PM

Willem,
Was there anything tangible to link this keris to a particular person?
An old photograph?
Perhaps a letter mentioning the occasion?

kino · 13th August 2016, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A keris can, and does, sometimes lose its gonjo often for culturally related reasons.

What are the cultural reasons that a keris would loose it's gonjo?

A keris that is forged without a separate gonjo, what completes the blade, a scabbard?

6th August 2016, 11:19 PM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,919	It looks like there is a mismatch between the kris and the scabbard... I don't think it is new... but 19th century?! I doubt. Last edited by mariusgmioc; 6th August 2016 at 11:39 PM.

7th August 2016, 08:51 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	May be the Dutch banker was an usurer or a crook? The name seems to be written on the mendak and the selut is recent and of poor quality. Regards Last edited by Jean; 7th August 2016 at 09:22 AM.

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7th August 2016, 02:43 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,422	I maybe wrong, but it doesn't look royal to me.

7th August 2016, 12:39 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,262	Good story. In respect of "Royal" keris. During the 1980's I saw and handled a number of keris that were indisputably "Royal" keris. They were held in the store rooms of the Surakarta Kraton and were keris that had been gifted to kraton officials, and to previous Susuhunans, and keris that had been made on order from the Kraton. In most cases these were very ordinary keris. A Javanese "Royal" keris does not need to be super great to be legitimate. This keris shown may well have spent time in a Kraton storeroom. However, the dress is very, very pedestrian quality and the keris itself is poorly matched to the dress. Again, this poor presentation is not at all unusual for something coming from the Surakarta Kraton. There are more than a few examples of very, very ordinary keris floating around, some of which are very famous ( and have been for a long time), are in museums, or during the 20th century were given to visiting heads of state and politicians. I was once offered a keris that had been presented to a former Australian Prime Minister, not by a kraton, but by (I guess) a representative of the Indonesian Government. It was one notch above rubbish. Probably a good indication of how much respect that particular Aussie PM got from Jakarta. Just because a keris has been presented to somebody, by somebody, it does not mean that its value is any more than the sum value of its individual parts.

7th August 2016, 01:24 PM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Thank you for the interesting story & analysis, I agree that the blade is quite good but do you think that the ganja wulung is original or not? (difficult to assess from a picture of course). Regards

7th August 2016, 02:29 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,262	I don't like guessing Jean, but really, whether it is, or is not the very first gonjo fitted to the blade is not relevant in my opinion. A keris can, and does, sometimes lose its gonjo often for culturally related reasons. It is important that the gonjo be replaced competently. It is unimportant that is has been replaced. Think about it like this:- the blade is male : the gonjo is female, just as the wrongko is female : the male wilah is mated to the female elements of the complete keris and when all are together we have a societal symbol of the unity of male and female, just as a married man & woman are together representative of the required unity that makes a whole: man cannot be complete without woman, woman cannot be complete without man. Now, in the human man/woman unity if one part dies, it should be replaced so that the remaining part can once again be complete. In traditional thought, a woman should not continue to exist as a part of a community after the death of her husband, but if she removes herself from the community, or in later times takes a new husband, the unity is restored and the community is once again in balance. If the community is in balance, the danger to the cosmos of a state of non-balance is avoided. The whole thing is really very simple. It is just a matter of understanding what the keris really is. Frankly, I don't think this is much of a blade from the artistic perspective, its just a keris, nothing special, not bad, not good. But it is a keris, and if thought about in a cultural/societal context the important thing is that it does have a gonjo and that gonjo is suited to the wilah.

7th August 2016, 10:50 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,442	Willem, Was there anything tangible to link this keris to a particular person? An old photograph? Perhaps a letter mentioning the occasion?