When in India "died" wootz?

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Maharatt,
It seem to me, that when this thread has had 65 posts so far, and none of them has been to your satisfacthion, we may conclude, that no one on this forum can give the right answer - so I suggest that you will give us your final word.

Jens, it's not that no one on the forum can not give the correct answer. The fact is that there is no literature of the 19th century, which can confirm that by the mid-19th century, the production wootz and manufacture of wootz steel blades in the East ceased. Yes, in India the era of wootz steel is likely to end in the middle of the 19th century. But remained Persia, Afghanistan and Central Asia ...

No responses yet. There are more questions

I think this topic is interesting. And requires further searches the literature of the 19th century, which will help us to discover the secrets of the disappearance of wootz steel.
I think. work together to find simpler. I'm looking for an old Russian literature of the 19th century, where they write about the wootz. For example, in Russian book "Journey to the north of Persia" it is written that in Tehran in a in 1852 did many wootz steel recurved dagger. You are looking at the same books in the English language. For example. I found the book: "Travels in the Panjab, Afghanistan , & Turkistan, to Balk, Bokhara, and Herat and a visit to Great Britain and Germany",1846. Mohana Lāla Munshi

Perhaps write about wootz steel in this book. But, I can not read it quickly, because I know English is bad.

[Jens Nordlunde]

mahratt,
Yes you are right, it is up to you to stop the thread. I cant help you any further with your question, as I have never esearched the question very deeply.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

mahratt,
Yes you are right, it is up to you to stop the thread. I cant help you any further with your question, as I have never esearched the question very deeply.

Jens, I'm sorry for seditious words. I hope I did no one not offend these words.

Do not you think that it is much more interesting more global issues related to the ethnographic weapons (especially now since it is possible through of modern technology, when many old books became available) than just discuss something like: "Look, what my lovely saber" or "Guys, what the name of this dagger?"

Of course, it is also necessary. But there are more interesting questions. And we can work together to find answers to them. At least try to do it.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Yes there really are many very interesting subjects besides the weapons. At one time I was reading about the mining, to learn how they got the gems for decorating the weapons.
In the north some of the diamonds were found in river beds, when the rivers dried out, while in other places they mined the diamonds.
Another interesting subject is the geography of India, to better understand the troubles they went through, transporting the very big armies from one place to another, and the amount of water and food they need every day, both for the soldiers but also for the animals.

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by mahratt

(especially now since it is possible through of modern technology, when many old books became available)

This is quite true, the amount of information available online now is amazing. You never know what you will find simply by reading older texts. I am sure some more wootz related material will be found this way.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

This is quite true, the amount of information available online now is amazing. You never know what you will find simply by reading older texts. I am sure some more wootz related material will be found this way.

I am sure more info might be available. However, the veracity of each snippet will never be proven. The general idea is well known: plenty of wootz dated to 18 century, much fewer examples after ~ 1850, singular examples by the end of 19 century ( all of dubious dating), virtually none even at the beginning of 20 century.

It just petered out.....

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am sure more info might be available. However, the veracity of each snippet will never be proven. The general idea is well known: plenty of wootz dated to 18 century, much fewer examples after ~ 1850, singular examples by the end of 19 century ( all of dubious dating), virtually none even at the beginning of 20 century.

It just petered out.....

Dating of wootz blades - very controversial issue. Most of the blades has no exact provenance. And any of us to have a more pleasant thing in the collection of the 18th century rather than the 19th century. And so it was up to us)))

Draw conclusions

The fact that in the middle of the 19th century in Persia did a lot wootz blades (1850). Wootzs blades for the year 1860 - also known. It is strange to assume that in 1870 (for example) wootz blades suddenly stopped doing

[Bob A]

Is it safe, then, to assume that an object made with Wootz steel can be dated as pre-1900, absent any other data?

[estcrh]

Originally Posted by ariel

I am sure more info might be available. However, the veracity of each snippet will never be proven.

There is a lot to be learned from first hand accounts in period texts. Just like modern books you have to decide what to believe and what not to believe but when an 1800s traveler gives you a window into the world at that particular time period I am grateful that someone at Google has taken the time to digitize it and make it available online for free. I for one am not willing to just completely ignore the information contained in books from this time period, and when you find several different accounts that say basically the same thing you find some level of veracity (accuracy / truth etc).

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by estcrh

I for one am not willing to just completely ignore the information contained in books from this time period, and when you find several different accounts that say basically the same thing you find some level of veracity (accuracy / truth etc).

estcrh, Your words - absolutely true.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by estcrh

...... when you find several different accounts that say basically the same thing you find some level of veracity (accuracy / truth etc).

Do you have verifiable accounts of wootz manufacture and forging dating to the very end of the 19th century?

Nobody argues about pre-~1850 period, and we are not splitting hair about 1860, 1870 etc. Even epidemics do not stop overnight.

In contrast, there are plenty of wootz blades verifiably dated to the 18th century ( I have one dated twice to 1782 on the blade) and likely even more provenanced ones to that or earlier era. Having cited many sources describing early mass-production of wootz and disappearance of this industry around mid-19th century, you yourself answered the question. As to the 20th century..... The entire "wootz" areal was filled with the Europeans, and there is no mention of the process till independent re-discoveries by Sherby and Verhoeven.