ALGERIAN FLINTLOCK LONG GUN

rickystl · 15th February 2016, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stenoyab

Interesting info regards the lock, I tried to remove mine to post a rear photo (and for my own interest), but one of the screws is stuck fast. so will put some oil on it and leave alone for a while.

Its wire on mine, but very much in the style of string/cord. Very fine multi core wires.

Have to confess I bought mine purely because of the crude lock and the sling, had no idea it was interesting to anyone beyond me.
Mine has no inlay, and only a very small amount of decoration.

Hi Jeff.
Yes, keep adding the penetrating oil every week and trying again. It would be great to see the inside of the lock. It may be a locally made copy (?) But from the outside, I think it may be a genuine Portuguese made lock, that was decorated locally. The inside of the lock will be the clue. Of course, the lock could have been used at a latter date. But is the lock is European made, it would still place your gun in an early period. Possibly pre-1800.
Rick.

stenoyab · 15th February 2016, 11:27 AM

Hi Rick,

Got the lock out.

Be interested to know if you think it is made in Europe or North Africa now you can see more.

Jeff

rickystl · 16th February 2016, 02:48 AM

Hi Jeff.

Hmmm......it's really a bit hard to tell if Europen or a locally made copy. Notice the three (3) screw lock. Which is a very early feature like a Snaphaunce. Often the screws are a clue on the inside of the lock. But hard to tell here. But I'm going out on a limb here and say it was originally a European made lock. Only because I've never seen a locally made "copy" of a Portuguese lock. It is very cool !!!

Rick.

Philip · 17th February 2016, 07:22 AM

Ricky and Sten,

Thanks for posting photos of the interior and exterior of your locks. Mechanically, what you guys have is a Portuguese hybrid design called "fecho meio a portuguesa e meio a francesa" -- a lock half in the Portuguese style, half French. These were in vogue during the latter 17th and into the following century.

The Portuguese component consists of what you see on the exterior: a miquelet-style hammer with pivoting dog and the odd angular frizzen-spring. These are derived from the purely Portuguese "fecho de molinhas" or spring lock, which first appeared in the closing decades of the 16th cent. and remained popular for another 175 years in Portugal. The molinhas lock boasted a rather complex sear arrangement which was probably influenced by earlier Iberian wheellocks. The important thing to note is that the molinhas always had an internal mainspring; there is another Portuguese lock called the "fecho de anselmo" which has a large exterior spring which presses downward like that of the Italian "alla romana" locks, but don't let me get carried away and start confusing you!

The French component is what you see inside the lockplate. The "guts" are those of the classic "French" flintlock which was to become the norm in most of Western Europe, plus Britain and America, from the late 17th through early 19th centuries. Note here that the Portuguese version incorporates the French mechanism at its earliest and most unrefined level of development -- the tumbler is not supported by a bridle as with later locks. This has functional consequences since it makes the mechanism prone to falling out of adjustment as parts wear down with repeated use.

The indigenous flintlocks of Portugal are unique in a number of respects, with no exact parallels outside the country. For one reason or another, they never gained traction outside the country, and even in their birthplace the French flintlock along with Italian and Spanish-style miquelets were to eclipse all of them as the 18th cent. wore on. Contrast this to the Castilian miquelet "de patilla" which was used throughout the Ottoman Empire and Iran, or the Spanish "agujeta" lock which you see on the majority of Algerian guns.

However, enough of the fechos de molinhas and the Luso-French hybrids were on guns brought by the Portuguese to sub-saharan Africa that factories in Liege, Belgium which produced cheap trade guns for the African market before World War I also cranked out very rough versions of these locks for export. One of the locks in your photos, the rather newish-looking one, is undoubtedly from this production.

Philip · 17th February 2016, 07:32 AM

Is it of European or African manufacture?
The shape of the lockplate is somewhat odd considering the mechanical type. In my post I identified it as a half Portuguese, half French hybrid. Original versions of this system, made in Portugal, tend to have the banana-shaped lockplates characteristic of French, or "true" flintlocks. You'll recognize the plate shape as something seen on, say, a Brown Bess lockplate, just to give an example.

The plate on your lock does not have this smooth banana profile, it has the protruding bulges typical of the earlier "fecho de molinhas". Not only that, the original molinhas locks have the rearmost bulge extended into a tapering, rounded tail. The shape of this posterior profile is necessitated by the design of the molinhas sear system which I have said is derived from wheellock sears. Your lock, which is the hybrid, has a stubbier tail; the French sear and spring don't take up as much room and a much shorter plate is needed. The nod to an earlier style of lockplate is more aesthetic than functional. The whole thing gives the impression of an artisan or manufacturer trying to get the best of both worlds -- the simpler French interior mechanism with the more traditional-looking or archaistic molinhas lockplate shape.

Based on this, I don't think that the lock is Portuguese, of the period when the system was in vogue in its homeland. If it's a Liege knockoff for the colonial trade, I would think that the major parts would be largely shaped by machine. Is the lockplate of uniform thickness throughout? Are the surfaces more or less even (albeit with file or machining marks) or is there evidence of hand forging (perhaps with some mill scale visible) that one would expect out of a native smithy? Do the screw threads look like they were cut by taps and dies, or are they hand-filed? Any stampings or markings? Answering these questions is a start in trying to figure out its origin.

rickystl · 20th February 2016, 04:36 PM

Hi Phillip.
Thanks so much for jumping in this Thread and lending your expertise. Great information! I've now added to my knowledge on this lock style. And I understand what your saying ref the earliest French style internals and the exterior Portuguese styling. Between about 1570 and 1650 there were so many changes, variations, etc. with lock design. This is the first time I've been able to view an early styled Portuguese lock. So, myself, being an honorary member of the arcane lock club, Jeff's lock is very exiting to see LOL

JEFF'S LOCK: Due to the dark patina it's a bit hard to tell in the photos, but the lock looks like it's a forging. Again, I can't tell from the photo if there is a full cock notch on the tumbler? Or maybe it is worn down. Maybe Jeff can tell us if the hammer will cock or not? And the "dog" style safety appears to be functional.
SOUTH AFRICAN TRADE LOCK: The one I have above is a casting, except for the mainspring. Which is not surprising. Also, what would be the safety in front of the hammer is actually just a hammer stop. This lock was made with the least possible cost of production. Didn't even bother to polish out the castings. LOL

Jeff's lock could very well be a locally made copy, or Europen made for export. But as you mentioned, the threads on the lock, etc. could give us better clues. You would think with all the early styled snaphaunce and miquelet locks utilized on these guns, that more than one or two would show up utilizing the Portuguese styled lock. But then, as Phillip mentions, the Portuguese styled lock never really caught on outside it's homeland. Which may be why we don't see them. So maybe I'm answering my own question.

Jeff: Thanks again for posting this lock. Much appreciated. Feel free to post any additional photos while the lock is off the gun. LOL

Rick.

stenoyab · 20th February 2016, 07:42 PM

Thank you for the interesting info Phillip.

I tend to think mine is no earlier than mid 1850's due to overall condition, but obviously the lock could be earlier.

It cocks and fires fine and the safety catch works to hold the hammer back.

If you look at the screws the slots are very much off centre,

Heres some close up photos of the rear of the lock.

15th February 2016, 11:27 AM	#2
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Hi Rick, Got the lock out. Be interested to know if you think it is made in Europe or North Africa now you can see more. Jeff Attached Images

17th February 2016, 07:22 AM	#4
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Portuguese style lock Ricky and Sten, Thanks for posting photos of the interior and exterior of your locks. Mechanically, what you guys have is a Portuguese hybrid design called "fecho meio a portuguesa e meio a francesa" -- a lock half in the Portuguese style, half French. These were in vogue during the latter 17th and into the following century. The Portuguese component consists of what you see on the exterior: a miquelet-style hammer with pivoting dog and the odd angular frizzen-spring. These are derived from the purely Portuguese "fecho de molinhas" or spring lock, which first appeared in the closing decades of the 16th cent. and remained popular for another 175 years in Portugal. The molinhas lock boasted a rather complex sear arrangement which was probably influenced by earlier Iberian wheellocks. The important thing to note is that the molinhas always had an internal mainspring; there is another Portuguese lock called the "fecho de anselmo" which has a large exterior spring which presses downward like that of the Italian "alla romana" locks, but don't let me get carried away and start confusing you! The French component is what you see inside the lockplate. The "guts" are those of the classic "French" flintlock which was to become the norm in most of Western Europe, plus Britain and America, from the late 17th through early 19th centuries. Note here that the Portuguese version incorporates the French mechanism at its earliest and most unrefined level of development -- the tumbler is not supported by a bridle as with later locks. This has functional consequences since it makes the mechanism prone to falling out of adjustment as parts wear down with repeated use. The indigenous flintlocks of Portugal are unique in a number of respects, with no exact parallels outside the country. For one reason or another, they never gained traction outside the country, and even in their birthplace the French flintlock along with Italian and Spanish-style miquelets were to eclipse all of them as the 18th cent. wore on. Contrast this to the Castilian miquelet "de patilla" which was used throughout the Ottoman Empire and Iran, or the Spanish "agujeta" lock which you see on the majority of Algerian guns. However, enough of the fechos de molinhas and the Luso-French hybrids were on guns brought by the Portuguese to sub-saharan Africa that factories in Liege, Belgium which produced cheap trade guns for the African market before World War I also cranked out very rough versions of these locks for export. One of the locks in your photos, the rather newish-looking one, is undoubtedly from this production.

17th February 2016, 07:32 AM	#5
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	attempt to answer Stenoyab's question Is it of European or African manufacture? The shape of the lockplate is somewhat odd considering the mechanical type. In my post I identified it as a half Portuguese, half French hybrid. Original versions of this system, made in Portugal, tend to have the banana-shaped lockplates characteristic of French, or "true" flintlocks. You'll recognize the plate shape as something seen on, say, a Brown Bess lockplate, just to give an example. The plate on your lock does not have this smooth banana profile, it has the protruding bulges typical of the earlier "fecho de molinhas". Not only that, the original molinhas locks have the rearmost bulge extended into a tapering, rounded tail. The shape of this posterior profile is necessitated by the design of the molinhas sear system which I have said is derived from wheellock sears. Your lock, which is the hybrid, has a stubbier tail; the French sear and spring don't take up as much room and a much shorter plate is needed. The nod to an earlier style of lockplate is more aesthetic than functional. The whole thing gives the impression of an artisan or manufacturer trying to get the best of both worlds -- the simpler French interior mechanism with the more traditional-looking or archaistic molinhas lockplate shape. Based on this, I don't think that the lock is Portuguese, of the period when the system was in vogue in its homeland. If it's a Liege knockoff for the colonial trade, I would think that the major parts would be largely shaped by machine. Is the lockplate of uniform thickness throughout? Are the surfaces more or less even (albeit with file or machining marks) or is there evidence of hand forging (perhaps with some mill scale visible) that one would expect out of a native smithy? Do the screw threads look like they were cut by taps and dies, or are they hand-filed? Any stampings or markings? Answering these questions is a start in trying to figure out its origin. Last edited by Philip; 17th February 2016 at 07:46 AM.

20th February 2016, 07:42 PM	#7
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Thank you for the interesting info Phillip. I tend to think mine is no earlier than mid 1850's due to overall condition, but obviously the lock could be earlier. It cocks and fires fine and the safety catch works to hold the hammer back. If you look at the screws the slots are very much off centre, Heres some close up photos of the rear of the lock. Attached Images Last edited by stenoyab; 20th February 2016 at 08:03 PM.

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16th February 2016, 02:48 AM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Jeff. Hmmm......it's really a bit hard to tell if Europen or a locally made copy. Notice the three (3) screw lock. Which is a very early feature like a Snaphaunce. Often the screws are a clue on the inside of the lock. But hard to tell here. But I'm going out on a limb here and say it was originally a European made lock. Only because I've never seen a locally made "copy" of a Portuguese lock. It is very cool !!! Rick.

20th February 2016, 04:36 PM	#6
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Phillip. Thanks so much for jumping in this Thread and lending your expertise. Great information! I've now added to my knowledge on this lock style. And I understand what your saying ref the earliest French style internals and the exterior Portuguese styling. Between about 1570 and 1650 there were so many changes, variations, etc. with lock design. This is the first time I've been able to view an early styled Portuguese lock. So, myself, being an honorary member of the arcane lock club, Jeff's lock is very exiting to see LOL JEFF'S LOCK: Due to the dark patina it's a bit hard to tell in the photos, but the lock looks like it's a forging. Again, I can't tell from the photo if there is a full cock notch on the tumbler? Or maybe it is worn down. Maybe Jeff can tell us if the hammer will cock or not? And the "dog" style safety appears to be functional. SOUTH AFRICAN TRADE LOCK: The one I have above is a casting, except for the mainspring. Which is not surprising. Also, what would be the safety in front of the hammer is actually just a hammer stop. This lock was made with the least possible cost of production. Didn't even bother to polish out the castings. LOL Jeff's lock could very well be a locally made copy, or Europen made for export. But as you mentioned, the threads on the lock, etc. could give us better clues. You would think with all the early styled snaphaunce and miquelet locks utilized on these guns, that more than one or two would show up utilizing the Portuguese styled lock. But then, as Phillip mentions, the Portuguese styled lock never really caught on outside it's homeland. Which may be why we don't see them. So maybe I'm answering my own question. Jeff: Thanks again for posting this lock. Much appreciated. Feel free to post any additional photos while the lock is off the gun. LOL Rick.