Perplexing Mark On Flintlock Holster Pistol

dana_w · 28th January 2016, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hey there

For me, it is a good copy of the Spanish gun, produced in Arab countries, who signed with some incomprehensible inscriptions

Fernando K

Don't say such things

Check out the photo from Spanish Military Weapons In Colonial America 1700-1821 page 48. The markings look very familiar. Just wish I had a better photo.

Fernando K · 28th January 2016, 09:51 PM

Hey there

I argue that is a good copy. but I did not listen ..........

Fernando K

M ELEY · 29th January 2016, 04:29 AM

I'm inclined to believe Fernando K is correct here. Check out this old thread concerning imported pistols from Europe going to the Barbary States (Turkey, Algiers, etc). Those odd markings match pistols from that region. Certainly, Spain did trade with Morocco and those other nations mentioned.

Another important pointer is the miquelet lock, so similar to the one on my example in the thread. Still, a very interesting flintlock with possible corsair connections!!!
Mark

www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19900

fernando · 29th January 2016, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I'm inclined to believe Fernando K is correct here...

That was also my impression. I just didn't dare to play the expert

corrado26 · 29th January 2016, 05:31 PM

In more than 50 years of collecting European military pistols I never saw this Spanish pistol as an Arabian or Osmanic copy. Copies or pistols made in these countries have very easily to rekognize locks. and mountings that differ widely from These of this pistol The inscription "YZAGV" may be that of a Spanish maker not very well struck and could perhaps end ...YZAGUI", a typical Spanish kind of spelling family names. I think this is a genuine Spanish pistol.
corrado26

fernando · 29th January 2016, 05:46 PM

Well noted, Corrado.
But then and, not wishing to perpetuate this issue and, assuming that the name in the mark is a plausible one, with all your experience of collecting, have you ever seen a lock maker stamp whis own name upside down ?

dana_w · 29th January 2016, 06:09 PM

Thanks for posting an image of the page for me fernando!

Thanks for your comments corrado26. Like fernando and Fernando K, I too find the markings very perplexing. But I am not persuaded the pistol is an Arabian or Osmanic copy.

Here are some additional photos:

corrado26 · 29th January 2016, 06:19 PM

No, I have never seen this, but don't forget: this is not a civilian but a military pistol made in great numbers in the 18. century. Why, I ask you, should'nt it happen that in a moment of little attention the punch was struck upside down? Not beauty was necessary but effectivness, i.e. the name struck into the not yet hardened lockplate had to be readable, not more.
As far as I know the "R" on the thumbplate stands for "REY" = king. I think this might be proof of the originality of the pistol. It demonstrates that this pistol was in stately Spanish property.
Sorry for my bad English
corrado26

29th January 2016, 06:09 PM	#7
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 436	Thanks for posting an image of the page for me fernando! Thanks for your comments corrado26. Like fernando and Fernando K, I too find the markings very perplexing. But I am not persuaded the pistol is an Arabian or Osmanic copy. Here are some additional photos: Attached Images

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28th January 2016, 09:51 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hey there I argue that is a good copy. but I did not listen .......... Fernando K

29th January 2016, 04:29 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I'm inclined to believe Fernando K is correct here. Check out this old thread concerning imported pistols from Europe going to the Barbary States (Turkey, Algiers, etc). Those odd markings match pistols from that region. Certainly, Spain did trade with Morocco and those other nations mentioned. Another important pointer is the miquelet lock, so similar to the one on my example in the thread. Still, a very interesting flintlock with possible corsair connections!!! Mark www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=19900

29th January 2016, 05:31 PM	#5
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	In more than 50 years of collecting European military pistols I never saw this Spanish pistol as an Arabian or Osmanic copy. Copies or pistols made in these countries have very easily to rekognize locks. and mountings that differ widely from These of this pistol The inscription "YZAGV" may be that of a Spanish maker not very well struck and could perhaps end ...YZAGUI", a typical Spanish kind of spelling family names. I think this is a genuine Spanish pistol. corrado26

29th January 2016, 05:46 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Well noted, Corrado. But then and, not wishing to perpetuate this issue and, assuming that the name in the mark is a plausible one, with all your experience of collecting, have you ever seen a lock maker stamp whis own name upside down ?

29th January 2016, 06:19 PM	#8
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,226	No, I have never seen this, but don't forget: this is not a civilian but a military pistol made in great numbers in the 18. century. Why, I ask you, should'nt it happen that in a moment of little attention the punch was struck upside down? Not beauty was necessary but effectivness, i.e. the name struck into the not yet hardened lockplate had to be readable, not more. As far as I know the "R" on the thumbplate stands for "REY" = king. I think this might be proof of the originality of the pistol. It demonstrates that this pistol was in stately Spanish property. Sorry for my bad English corrado26