Indian eras

Jens Nordlunde · 23rd January 2016, 10:40 PM

How many Indian eras do you know?
There are a lot, but how many of them are still used is a riddle to me.

kahnjar1 · 24th January 2016, 07:35 AM

Hi Jens,
Whilst Indian history is not my thing, Lord Egerton of Tatton, in his book Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour, splits the Military history of India into 4 broad parts.
Earliest Invasions to the Conquest of Baber --Around 2000BC to around 1500
From Barber to the Death of Aurungzebe --Approx 1500AD to app.1700AD
From Death of Aurungzebe to Fall of Mogul Empire - App 1700 to early 1800s
Fall of the Mugul Empire to the 1st Burmese War - App.1800AD to 1830s
I guess a 5th part could be India under British influence.
Not sure if this is what you are looking for. I suspect that within the above categories, there are likely to be sub categories also.
Stu

Jens Nordlunde · 24th January 2016, 10:36 AM

I have 'collected' some eras, but I am sure there must be more. Some of them were only used for a period, while some are still in use - especially Vikrama Samvat.
Does anyone know anything about the eras below?

Vikrama Samvat +57/57 years
Shaka Samvat -78/79 years
Bangla Samvar -593/594 years
Jaina Samvat +526/527 years
Kali era +3100/3101 years
Fash era (?)590/591 years

Pukka Bundook · 24th January 2016, 03:35 PM

Jens,

I thought you may be meaning eras like the Pre-Indus, Indus, Vedic and such. India is a big and complex land!! :-)

Best,
Richard.

Jens Nordlunde · 24th January 2016, 04:59 PM

Richard,
A Google search for Vikram Samvat says:
"The Vikram era, or Vikram samvat is an Indian calendar starting in 57 BC. The date is supposed to show when the King Vikramāditya beat the Sakas, who had invaded Ujjain. A new calendar was started just to honor this time."

When you look at dates inscriped on weapons most of the dates are in VS, but you can not always be sure, although the era is mostly given in the inscription. As the VS year doesn't start on January 1st you have to add not 57 years but 56-57 years.
I wonder how many of these old eras are still used. Does anyone know?

Jim McDougall · 24th January 2016, 06:57 PM

Hi Jens,
There are few collectors as well versed in the history of India as you, and honestly if this topic is beyond you, even remotely, it is hard to imagine sound response. The application of the term 'era' is puzzling as confused with regnal (reign); period (usually historical reference) or calendar, using sequenced measure of time as linked to astronomy. At least those are my very 'lay' understandings of these.

It is hard to imagine most of these, especially of very ancient times, being used in collecting, as with weapons usually in collections, these are relatively modern..within the past several hundred years.

However, what is most interesting is your notes on the VS indicating Vikram date, which is familiar to me from your descriptions denoting that date on a number of your weapons. Until you pointed that out to me I had no idea there was a separate date measure used in India, much in the way that the Islamic Culture uses the A.H. date measure.

It seems that this peculiarity with the Vikram date is also the case with the other 'eras' you mention, and it is bewildering to know when these would be applicable. It would seem that these eras would be known of course to consummate Indian history scholars and would be instrumental to establishing proper date on materials which reflect such markings.

Thank you for bringing up this fascinating topic! and while the complexities of Indian history are daunting to most, it is great to recognize this aspect for those who choose to venture closer to the fire.

All very best regards
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 24th January 2016, 07:18 PM

Hi Jim,
There is also something else interesting, and that is, that the VS is different from India to Nepal. This has something to do with the sun and the moon chalender.
Yes I agree this is quite complicated, so I will have another look at it when I get some more time.

Jim McDougall · 24th January 2016, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Jim,
There is also something else interesting, and that is, that the VS is different from India to Nepal. This has something to do with the sun and the moon chalender.
Yes I agree this is quite complicated, so I will have another look at it when I get some more time.

Yikes!
This was already complicated enough

I had no idea on Nepal being separate regarding these dates. I think this note pertaining to solar and lunar factors well illustrates the astronomical character of these measures as opposed to regnal or historical.

kahnjar1 · 24th January 2016, 08:01 PM

Hi Jens,
Now that I know what you are looking for, have a look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_calendar
There is some info under the "Eras" section....#8 on the side Menu.
Good luck with the research, it sure looks confusing to me after reading this link, but an interesting task IMHO.
Stu

Pukka Bundook · 24th January 2016, 08:11 PM

Jens and all,

I understand you now.

I was just reading a few days ago, (and cannot remember where!), that there are different calendars still used in India, and in two of them, the year starts in spring, (was it march?)but on different days and in another calendar, the year starts in October or something!
Of course, neither March or October are used, that is merely for our benefit.

How this works in practical terms I am not sure.

Jens Nordlunde · 25th January 2016, 05:13 PM

Here is another link https://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/an...ras-are-there/

Happy reading :-)

Khanjar, I have only read part of the link you gave, but it looks interesting.

It is really quite surprising how many different eras they had, and many of them going very far back.
Now only few are in use, as far as I know, but imagine when a number of them were used in different places of India at the same time.
Ok, communication was not as intence as to day - but still.

23rd January 2016, 10:40 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Indian eras How many Indian eras do you know? There are a lot, but how many of them are still used is a riddle to me.

25th January 2016, 05:13 PM	#11
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Here is another link https://oldthoughts.wordpress.com/an...ras-are-there/ Happy reading :-) Khanjar, I have only read part of the link you gave, but it looks interesting. It is really quite surprising how many different eras they had, and many of them going very far back. Now only few are in use, as far as I know, but imagine when a number of them were used in different places of India at the same time. Ok, communication was not as intence as to day - but still. Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 25th January 2016 at 05:25 PM.

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24th January 2016, 07:35 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	Hi Jens, Whilst Indian history is not my thing, Lord Egerton of Tatton, in his book Indian and Oriental Arms and Armour, splits the Military history of India into 4 broad parts. Earliest Invasions to the Conquest of Baber --Around 2000BC to around 1500 From Barber to the Death of Aurungzebe --Approx 1500AD to app.1700AD From Death of Aurungzebe to Fall of Mogul Empire - App 1700 to early 1800s Fall of the Mugul Empire to the 1st Burmese War - App.1800AD to 1830s I guess a 5th part could be India under British influence. Not sure if this is what you are looking for. I suspect that within the above categories, there are likely to be sub categories also. Stu

24th January 2016, 10:36 AM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I have 'collected' some eras, but I am sure there must be more. Some of them were only used for a period, while some are still in use - especially Vikrama Samvat. Does anyone know anything about the eras below? Vikrama Samvat +57/57 years Shaka Samvat -78/79 years Bangla Samvar -593/594 years Jaina Samvat +526/527 years Kali era +3100/3101 years Fash era (?)590/591 years

24th January 2016, 03:35 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Jens, I thought you may be meaning eras like the Pre-Indus, Indus, Vedic and such. India is a big and complex land!! :-) Best, Richard.

24th January 2016, 04:59 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Richard, A Google search for Vikram Samvat says: "The Vikram era, or Vikram samvat is an Indian calendar starting in 57 BC. The date is supposed to show when the King Vikramāditya beat the Sakas, who had invaded Ujjain. A new calendar was started just to honor this time." When you look at dates inscriped on weapons most of the dates are in VS, but you can not always be sure, although the era is mostly given in the inscription. As the VS year doesn't start on January 1st you have to add not 57 years but 56-57 years. I wonder how many of these old eras are still used. Does anyone know?

24th January 2016, 06:57 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,957	Hi Jens, There are few collectors as well versed in the history of India as you, and honestly if this topic is beyond you, even remotely, it is hard to imagine sound response. The application of the term 'era' is puzzling as confused with regnal (reign); period (usually historical reference) or calendar, using sequenced measure of time as linked to astronomy. At least those are my very 'lay' understandings of these. It is hard to imagine most of these, especially of very ancient times, being used in collecting, as with weapons usually in collections, these are relatively modern..within the past several hundred years. However, what is most interesting is your notes on the VS indicating Vikram date, which is familiar to me from your descriptions denoting that date on a number of your weapons. Until you pointed that out to me I had no idea there was a separate date measure used in India, much in the way that the Islamic Culture uses the A.H. date measure. It seems that this peculiarity with the Vikram date is also the case with the other 'eras' you mention, and it is bewildering to know when these would be applicable. It would seem that these eras would be known of course to consummate Indian history scholars and would be instrumental to establishing proper date on materials which reflect such markings. Thank you for bringing up this fascinating topic! and while the complexities of Indian history are daunting to most, it is great to recognize this aspect for those who choose to venture closer to the fire. All very best regards Jim

24th January 2016, 07:18 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Jim, There is also something else interesting, and that is, that the VS is different from India to Nepal. This has something to do with the sun and the moon chalender. Yes I agree this is quite complicated, so I will have another look at it when I get some more time.

24th January 2016, 08:01 PM	#9
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,741	Hi Jens, Now that I know what you are looking for, have a look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_calendar There is some info under the "Eras" section....#8 on the side Menu. Good luck with the research, it sure looks confusing to me after reading this link, but an interesting task IMHO. Stu

24th January 2016, 08:11 PM	#10
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Jens and all, I understand you now. I was just reading a few days ago, (and cannot remember where!), that there are different calendars still used in India, and in two of them, the year starts in spring, (was it march?)but on different days and in another calendar, the year starts in October or something! Of course, neither March or October are used, that is merely for our benefit. How this works in practical terms I am not sure.