Keris Panjang 5 Lok Blade

[A. G. Maisey]

Sirek, have a close look at the ron dha on your keris.

What do you notice?

[Jean]

I attach the pics of 2 supposedly javanese panjang krisses for reference, sorry for the poor quality.
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I've had more than a few Javanese keris panjang, but some of these had non-Javanese blades. I rather feel that a close examination of the two keris you have shown would also point to an origin outside Jawa for the blades.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Jean, I've had more than a few Javanese keris panjang, but some of these had non-Javanese blades. I rather feel that a close examination of the two keris you have shown would also point to an origin outside Jawa for the blades.

Thank you Alan, this is why I wrote "supposedly" and expected such comment... The top specimen seems more likely to be non-javanese than the bottom one IMO but it is difficult to tell from the poor pictures and the condition of the blades.
Regards

[sirek]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Sirek, have a close look at the ron dha on your keris.

What do you notice?

Mr Maisey my untrained eye try to see what you mean, but I'm not sure where to look out for: not correctly cut?

[A. G. Maisey]

Actually both ron dha are correctly cut, and well cut, but the rondha in the gonjo is Surakarta pattern, and the ron dha nunut --- ie, the ron dha in the wadidang of the blade --- is Mataram pattern.

This sort of mix usually indicates that the gonjo has been made for a different keris and adapted to fit the one it is on.

[sirek]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Actually both ron dha are correctly cut, and well cut, but the rondha in the gonjo is Surakarta pattern, and the ron dha nunut --- ie, the ron dha in the wadidang of the blade --- is Mataram pattern.

This sort of mix usually indicates that the gonjo has been made for a different keris and adapted to fit the one it is on.

Thank you for pointing that out, If I had to explain the difference it seems to me that the upper part of the ron dha in the Mataram pattern bends more upwards.
Concerning the gonjo, I have always had the suspicion that this was a replacement. But for me that was not such a problem because i thought it is not uncommon with older blades.

[David]

Originally Posted by sirek

Thank you for pointing that out, If I had to explain the difference it seems to me that the upper part of the ron dha in the Mataram pattern bends more upwards.
Concerning the gonjo, I have always had the suspicion that this was a replacement. But for me that was not such a problem because i thought it is not uncommon with older blades.

I think a replacement gonjo is a very good explanation/possibility.
I do wonder is this is really a keris panjang though. It doesn't appear quite long enough in the photo, but that could be deceptive. What is the actual blade length here?

[A. G. Maisey]

It is very common for a gonjo to be replaced on an older keris, however, the usual practice is to make a new gonjo, not recycle a gonjo from a different blade.

The reasons for replacemant can range from the original gonjo being damaged to the use of an original gonjo in the manufacture of a new keris.

If we think of the gonjo as a female element, and the wilah as a male element, it should be obvious why it is not fitting to replace a gonjo with the gonjo from a different wilah. When this is done it can very probably be considered to be the work of a dealer, or some person who does not understand keris ethics.

[sirek]

Originally Posted by David

I think a replacement gonjo is a very good explanation/possibility.
I do wonder is this is really a keris panjang though. It doesn't appear quite long enough in the photo, but that could be deceptive. What is the actual blade length here?

Hello David, the length of the blade = 40cm / 15¾ inch, measured from gonjo to point.

[David]

Originally Posted by sirek

Hello David, the length of the blade = 40cm / 15¾ inch, measured from gonjo to point.

Yes, i would say that is a bit too short for a keris panjang.