Keris Coteng

[maxbliss888]

Originally Posted by BluErf

I meant good enough to wear around in the kampung, but not fine enough for the higher social strata. Sorry, this sounds politically incorrect, but that's the way art is. The centre of wealth and political power breeds high excellence in artistic expression which form the pinnacles of art that ordinary folks copy, emulate and aspire to own/consume. Like all facsimiles, definition is lost in the process.

If this is the case, this old one will not make it to higher social strata as well...

My guess is that it depends on which angle you prefer to see it. Keris as a weapon or Keris as a status symbol...

[BluErf]

Yes, indeed.

To be even more provocative, some kerises are not good enough for the social higher strata, and at the same time, they make poor weapons too. So what do we make of these kerises?

"Old" not equals "good" or "bad"
"New" not equals "bad" or "good"
Likewise for "simple" and "complex"

But I think we have digressed a bit frm the original point I wanted to make, but I suspect was not conveyed adequately - that a "kampung" quality hilt does not adhere very strictly to archetypal forms. You get all sorts of variations and unusual features. From my experience, it is usually a futile exercise trying to classify these examples definitively. Sometimes, they are just amalgamations of influences and even the whims and fancies of the maker.

So this is to be read in relation to your question/statement - this looks like a tajong, but is actually a coteng.

The first rule of collecting is to collect what you like. Happy learning about the keris, and then collecting it!

[maxbliss888]

Another of ɱყ friend's Coteng

[maxbliss888]

Staying in Thailand has allowed me to build a small network and I have managed to get to know more Keris collectors

[maxbliss888]

Another collector's Keris

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Another of ɱყ friend's Coteng

Excellent pieces these 3! Tks for sharing. It's difficult to see pieces of these calibre.

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Another collector's Keris

These two are very good too. The sheath forms are top notch.

[BluErf]

I have a piece in my collection which has baffled me for a while. It has features of a tajong, like elaborate crown, beard, and a more abstract anthropomorphic form. But instead of a regular tajong sheath, it was affixed to a coteng style sheath which was larger than usual. The blade is what my group of collectors here in Sg refer to as "Chenok" style, after the place the form is said to originate from.

Can your collector friends share their opinion on the origin of this keris pls? Tks

[BluErf]

More pics, including one for comparison with other more regular coteng kerises.

[maxbliss888]

ŋıƈɛ ƈơƖƖɛƈɬıơŋ!

ʂųཞɛ! ῳıƖƖ check with them during our weekend gathering...

[maxbliss888]

Originally Posted by BluErf

I have a piece in my collection which has baffled me for a while. It has features of a tajong, like elaborate crown, beard, and a more abstract anthropomorphic form. But instead of a regular tajong sheath, it was affixed to a coteng style sheath which was larger than usual. The blade is what my group of collectors here in Sg refer to as "Chenok" style, after the place the form is said to originate from.

Can your collector friends share their opinion on the origin of this keris pls? Tks

Hi! I have shown the photo to a senior Keris collector and in his opinion, he feels that the the Hulu (handle) should be a Coteng one for the sheath. There are bigger Sheath Coteng.

Please see example..

[maxbliss888]

Here is another example of Coteng Shield

[maxbliss888]

The Coteng has various sizes and the rare one is as long as the Tajong..

[maxbliss888]

This is another collector collection. Good example to see the different Coteng with different length and sizes.

[maxbliss888]

This Coteng has been cleaned

[maxbliss888]

A gift from my Thai friend..

[maxbliss888]

ɬɧıʂ ıʂ another Coteng from my Thai Friend..

[maxbliss888]

Small gathering... ɧơ℘ɛ ყơu like it..

[BluErf]

Thanks! Can I clarify whether you meant the hilt was not correct for the sheath, or that the hilt is considered a coteng hilt?

[BluErf]

With so many specimens shown in this thread, it should go down as the Coteng thread to come to for a visual feast. Thanks for sharing them.

[maxbliss888]

Originally Posted by BluErf

Thanks! Can I clarify whether you meant the hilt was not correct for the sheath, or that the hilt is considered a coteng hilt?

Hi!

According to some serious collectors, as the hilt is made of wood, some tends to get damage over time and often got replaced. In this instance, it can be either be a situation where the Coteng hilt has been replaced with a Tajong. Alternatively, it may be a situation where a Tajong Keris has been matched with a Coteng shield. The suggestion from the collectors are either One quick way is to change the hilt or shield.

Cheers

[BluErf]

Ok, thanks for the clarification!

Another piece I'd like to ask about - this coteng came back from Europe. The sheath form is different frm most coteng we see. I associate this sheath form as an older form closer to the original coastal Javanese keris forms from which I think the coteng evolved. What does your collector friends think?

[maxbliss888]

Yes, it's the old Coteng shield...with the influence Javanese art cirebon.

[maxbliss888]

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Yes, it's the old Coteng shield...with the influence Javanese art cirebon.

Please see below comparison

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Please see below comparison

Hello Max,

the scabbard on the right isn't a Cirebon one but a Coteng scabbard IMHO. Can you post a photo of both from the other side?

Regards,
Detlef

[maxbliss888]

Hi!

I am not saying that it's a Cirebon one but with Javanese influences..

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Hi!

I am not saying that it's a Cirebon one but with Javanese influences..

Hi, so it has been just a missunderstanding, soory!

[maxbliss888]

No worries..

[maxbliss888]

Coteng

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by maxbliss888

Yes, it's the old Coteng shield...with the influence Javanese art cirebon.

Thanks Francis, for affirming my thinking. The hilt on this coteng has sone really sublime carvings. The form is also extra "rounded". Very pleasing piece.