Iberian longsword evidence?

[batjka]

There seems to be a lot of discussion concerning provenance of longsword in Iberian peninsula in 13th-15th centuries. Sources point to a "double-handed" sword tradition that existed before Destreza. Allegedly, some manuals were published in the early 15th Century that describe Spanish longsword system. But all of them have been lost. The only remaining sources come from 16th century, as one on montante by Figuieiredo.

But if the longsword was actually in wide use on the Iberian peninsula, there must be archeological and artistic evidence of such. Are there preserved examples of Spanish and Portuguese longsword in museums or private collections? Any art showing these weapons in Spain or Portugal?

I hope such esteemed and knowledgeable gentlemen as yourselves can help resolve this puzzle.

Thank you in advance.

[fernando]

Two handed swords (Montantes) are often mentioned in chronicles of the Portuguese discoveries period, for one.
They were used by nobles, those educated to train with such weapons.
Not many around presently, though ... or they are well kept in private collections.
A couple examples can be seen in Lisbon Military Museum; including those having apparently belonged to notable fiugures; Henry the Navigator and Vasco da Gama

.

[batjka]

Thank you very much, Fernando. These swords are beautiful!

My understanding is that a montante lays somewhere in between a longsword and a great sword in length and weight. A longsword would be around 120-130cm in length and 1200-1800gm in weight. A great sword is 3-3.5kg and up to 170cm in length. A montante is somewhere in the middle? What are the measurements of the known montantes, such as the ones shown above?

[fernando]

One is 157 cms and another one 175 cms.

[batjka]

Made a mistake, Figuieiredo is a 17th Century source.

Are there any depictions of montantes in Spanish art of the period? I would love to be able to see them. In German and other European paintings, a longsword as well as the bigger Greatsword are well I represented. I'm looking for Iberian sources.

Fernando, thank you again for your knowledge and help.

[fernando]

Browse the web with term Mandoble (double hand). You will find many offers for replicas, like that of Carlos V, which means there were also originals. With some insistence and a bit of luck you will find images of the real thing.

[batjka]

Thank you for your suggestion, Fernando. I was able to locate a couple of more Iberian two-handed swords here:

http://www.esgrimaantigua.com/node/68

It shows several swords made in the early and late 16th Century. These swords are located in the Army Museum of Madrid, according to the captions.

[batjka]

I also found a sword allegedly belonging to Fernando el Catolico. This is a typical longsword of 15th Century Europe. So there's some tangible proof of a longsword use in Spain at that time:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/47878...ill_010_lg.jpg

[fernando]

Are you happy now ?

[ulfberth]

This one is in La Real Almeria in Madrid Spain, it is in the same style and probably of Spanish origin

Kind regards

Ulfberth