A question about katars

Aqtai · 11th December 2005, 05:24 PM

The short answer is yes.

These pics are from Robert Elgood's "Hindu Arms and Ritual".
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9...crested0it.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/1...animals1ks.jpg
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7...cock1017yu.jpg

This from oriental-Arms.com
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=519
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1139

ariel · 11th December 2005, 06:33 PM

The gauntlet version of Katar is called Tooroom and a grossly oversized one, a sword actually, is a Pata.

Jens Nordlunde · 11th December 2005, 09:33 PM

Hi Ahriman, I doubt that any Indian in the earlier times would have used two katars against a sword, if he could have avoided it – so why do you think it is a good idea?

If you think there are only the two of you interested in katars, you should, maybe try the search button.

True that the south Indian katars often had a hand guard, and the north Indians seldom had one.

Ahriman · 12th December 2005, 09:52 AM

Jens: I know that almost everyone likes katars... I was talking about that if I asked the same in the armour topic, etc...

Of course, that method is far from good or preferable, but we like cross-training quite much... Rapier vs greatsword, knife vs saber, double buckler vs sword&buckler, grossmesser vs katana, etc. Very helpful in developing good skills.

But standard katars leave your hands open so much that I don't have too much chance against meisterhauen even if I use two katars... and I have absolutely no chance if I use only one.

Thanks for the info, and the beautiful pics... maybe I shold collect a little money to buy that book.

Jens Nordlunde · 12th December 2005, 11:23 AM

Hi Ahriman. I have seen pictures of gauntlet katars, but only pictures. There are of course also the katars with hand guard.

Ahriman · 13th December 2005, 06:16 PM

Thanks... could anyone show pictures of these toorooms? I can't find any, but I'm rather curious.

Is it different from patas in else than size?
Other thing. How thick is the metal guard, and from what it is made? If it was tempered steel, I'd bet around 1.5-2mm, if it's mild, I think it would be around 3.5-4mm, or more, but this would double the weapon's weight.
Last thing. Taken from blade widht and lenght, most katars can be used for cutting and stabbing, while patas are thrust-only weapons, right?

Jens Nordlunde · 22nd October 2018, 04:22 PM

Ahriman, sorry for the 'late' answer.
I dont have a Tooroom, and maybe what Ariel is thinking about is the one shown on p. 149 in Robert Elgood's book Hindu Arms and Ritual. I have never seen one, and it is the only time I have seen a picture of a gauntlet katar.

The hand guard on the katar shown over your last post is about 1½ mm, but made of steel, but I would estimade that it could take quite a blow without the hand holding it got hurt.

Mostly when fighting, the katars without a hand guard would be held in the left hand, and used for stabbing when close enough.

My estimate is that the pata could be used for stabbing and slashing. However, imagine you come riding at full speed and want to attack someone, then it would be used for slashing. If you used it for stabbing, your arm would be torn off at the shoulder when you passed the one you had just stabbed, as you could not easily let go of the pata when it was stuck.

12th December 2005, 11:23 AM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Ahriman. I have seen pictures of gauntlet katars, but only pictures. There are of course also the katars with hand guard. Attached Images

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

11th December 2005, 05:24 PM	#1
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	The short answer is yes. These pics are from Robert Elgood's "Hindu Arms and Ritual". http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/9...crested0it.jpg http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/1...animals1ks.jpg http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/7...cock1017yu.jpg This from oriental-Arms.com http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=519 http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1139

11th December 2005, 06:33 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The gauntlet version of Katar is called Tooroom and a grossly oversized one, a sword actually, is a Pata.

11th December 2005, 09:33 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Ahriman, I doubt that any Indian in the earlier times would have used two katars against a sword, if he could have avoided it – so why do you think it is a good idea? If you think there are only the two of you interested in katars, you should, maybe try the search button. True that the south Indian katars often had a hand guard, and the north Indians seldom had one.

12th December 2005, 09:52 AM	#4
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Jens: I know that almost everyone likes katars... I was talking about that if I asked the same in the armour topic, etc... Of course, that method is far from good or preferable, but we like cross-training quite much... Rapier vs greatsword, knife vs saber, double buckler vs sword&buckler, grossmesser vs katana, etc. Very helpful in developing good skills. But standard katars leave your hands open so much that I don't have too much chance against meisterhauen even if I use two katars... and I have absolutely no chance if I use only one. Thanks for the info, and the beautiful pics... maybe I shold collect a little money to buy that book.

13th December 2005, 06:16 PM	#6
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Thanks... could anyone show pictures of these toorooms? I can't find any, but I'm rather curious. Is it different from patas in else than size? Other thing. How thick is the metal guard, and from what it is made? If it was tempered steel, I'd bet around 1.5-2mm, if it's mild, I think it would be around 3.5-4mm, or more, but this would double the weapon's weight. Last thing. Taken from blade widht and lenght, most katars can be used for cutting and stabbing, while patas are thrust-only weapons, right?

22nd October 2018, 04:22 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ahriman, sorry for the 'late' answer. I dont have a Tooroom, and maybe what Ariel is thinking about is the one shown on p. 149 in Robert Elgood's book Hindu Arms and Ritual. I have never seen one, and it is the only time I have seen a picture of a gauntlet katar. The hand guard on the katar shown over your last post is about 1½ mm, but made of steel, but I would estimade that it could take quite a blow without the hand holding it got hurt. Mostly when fighting, the katars without a hand guard would be held in the left hand, and used for stabbing when close enough. My estimate is that the pata could be used for stabbing and slashing. However, imagine you come riding at full speed and want to attack someone, then it would be used for slashing. If you used it for stabbing, your arm would be torn off at the shoulder when you passed the one you had just stabbed, as you could not easily let go of the pata when it was stuck.