Interesting kris with unknown script

drac2k · 20th October 2014, 10:14 PM

I picked up this interesting kris, and I would appreciate some insight.I believe since the bilah and the hulu were made separately it is older. The warangka is very nice with some script on the back; can anyone translate it ?
Thanks

drac2k · 20th October 2014, 10:22 PM

2 more pictures of the writing from a different angle.

David · 21st October 2014, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

I believe since the bilah and the hulu were made separately it is older.

Hi Drak. I'm not certain if this is an original ensemble or pieced together at a later date, but the blade is Bali-like and the hilt and sheath looks like a style known from the Balinese communities that settled in Madura, so this one could be all Madura.
I am confused by your statement above as the bilah (blade) and hulu (hilt) will always be separate, unless we are discussing keris sajen which this is not.

As for the writing, i don't have the knowledge to translate, but even if i did i am not certain that it can be read well enough in your photos for a full translation.

drac2k · 21st October 2014, 05:06 AM

Thanks for your reply and information . The confusion was on my part; I was kind of reaching, so thanks for clearing that up.The pictures were unclear on the writing, but I was hoping someone could pick up a word or two.

Gustav · 21st October 2014, 03:32 PM

Greneng, Blumbangan and the proportions of Gonjo don't look Bali to me. It seems, there is quite small amount of supportable information about earlier blades from Madura, yet this one looks like an older mainland Javanese to me.

A. G. Maisey · 21st October 2014, 10:34 PM

I tend to agree with you Gustav, but we should not forget that historically Madura functioned pretty much like a province of Jawa, it is quite common to find old Madura keris in mainland Jawa dress, and old Jawa keris in Madura dress.

David · 22nd October 2014, 07:09 AM

How long is the blade on this keris Drak?

drac2k · 22nd October 2014, 12:32 PM

Approx. 14" long and 3" wide at it's base.

David · 22nd October 2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drac2k

Approx. 14" long and 3" wide at it's base.

Thanks. I will follow the consensus on this one then.

A. G. Maisey · 22nd October 2014, 10:10 PM

Actually, the thing I find most interesting about this keris is the pendok.

I don't think it is a marriage, or from any area other than Madura, but it is just as peculiar as the other similar examples we've seen in the past.

The overall style and proportion is not like anything that we could normally recognise as Madura, more like Jogja if anything, but in this example that we have here, it appears that the tip of the pendok swells into a little lump, reminiscent of the kepet that we often find on older Madura pendok.

A peculiar keris.

Gustav · 23rd October 2014, 12:52 AM

There is a Pendok of this type, depicted in both book (page 142) and Krisdisk of Karsten Sejr Jensen (Chapter Bali). It is by far more elaborated, in suasa and gold, yet exactly the same typus. The pendok blewah even more resembles Yogya style at the joint with Gambar, yet also has a small Kepet, and is quite huge - the Luk blade in it is 46 cm long. The Banaspati head seems to be made together with Slorok - becouse of this I always thought it would be a later example.

The Yogya influence is almost unbelievable, bot only almost. There is some little information about a Besalen from Kraton Yogya, which settled in East Java in Magetan around 1825-1830. Perhaps also other artisans besides smiths took part at this migration? Any more precise information about it would be very interesting and welcome. And perhaps this wasn't the only one migration.

20th October 2014, 10:14 PM	#1
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Interesting kris with unknown script I picked up this interesting kris, and I would appreciate some insight.I believe since the bilah and the hulu were made separately it is older. The warangka is very nice with some script on the back; can anyone translate it ? Thanks Attached Images

20th October 2014, 10:22 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	2 more pictures of the writing from a different angle. Attached Images

21st October 2014, 03:32 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	Greneng, Blumbangan and the proportions of Gonjo don't look Bali to me. It seems, there is quite small amount of supportable information about earlier blades from Madura, yet this one looks like an older mainland Javanese to me. Attached Images

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21st October 2014, 05:06 AM	#4
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Thanks for your reply and information . The confusion was on my part; I was kind of reaching, so thanks for clearing that up.The pictures were unclear on the writing, but I was hoping someone could pick up a word or two.

21st October 2014, 10:34 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	I tend to agree with you Gustav, but we should not forget that historically Madura functioned pretty much like a province of Jawa, it is quite common to find old Madura keris in mainland Jawa dress, and old Jawa keris in Madura dress.

22nd October 2014, 07:09 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	How long is the blade on this keris Drak?

22nd October 2014, 12:32 PM	#8
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,232	Approx. 14" long and 3" wide at it's base.

22nd October 2014, 10:10 PM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Actually, the thing I find most interesting about this keris is the pendok. I don't think it is a marriage, or from any area other than Madura, but it is just as peculiar as the other similar examples we've seen in the past. The overall style and proportion is not like anything that we could normally recognise as Madura, more like Jogja if anything, but in this example that we have here, it appears that the tip of the pendok swells into a little lump, reminiscent of the kepet that we often find on older Madura pendok. A peculiar keris.

23rd October 2014, 12:52 AM	#11
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,249	There is a Pendok of this type, depicted in both book (page 142) and Krisdisk of Karsten Sejr Jensen (Chapter Bali). It is by far more elaborated, in suasa and gold, yet exactly the same typus. The pendok blewah even more resembles Yogya style at the joint with Gambar, yet also has a small Kepet, and is quite huge - the Luk blade in it is 46 cm long. The Banaspati head seems to be made together with Slorok - becouse of this I always thought it would be a later example. The Yogya influence is almost unbelievable, bot only almost. There is some little information about a Besalen from Kraton Yogya, which settled in East Java in Magetan around 1825-1830. Perhaps also other artisans besides smiths took part at this migration? Any more precise information about it would be very interesting and welcome. And perhaps this wasn't the only one migration.