Kris hilt problems, solution anybody?

A. G. Maisey · 13th May 2014, 05:03 PM

In my experience, nothing but freshly squeezed tahitian limes will provide the fluid that you need.

In Jawa they are not called Tahitian limes, but that's what they are sold as in Oz. In my previous house I had my own tree and harvested and prepared the juice when the limes came on, then I saved the juice in the deep freeze immediately, this worked OK too.

You need to squeeze the limes, then strain the juice, then filter through clean cloth, I use an old, worn linen handerchief.

As David has said, keris staining is a very delicate process, and not real easy to get a decent result. As with any skill, it takes time to learn.

S.Workman · 13th May 2014, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In my experience, nothing but freshly squeezed tahitian limes will provide the fluid that you need.

In Jawa they are not called Tahitian limes, but that's what they are sold as in Oz. In my previous house I had my own tree and harvested and prepared the juice when the limes came on, then I saved the juice in the deep freeze immediately, this worked OK too.

You need to squeeze the limes, then strain the juice, then filter through clean cloth, I use an old, worn linen handerchief.

As David has said, keris staining is a very delicate process, and not real easy to get a decent result. As with any skill, it takes time to learn.

I am sure that has a lot to do with it, also my arsenic is not what it should be. I am using artists orpiment, which is arsenic trisulphide. It ought to be arsenic trioxide, but I found an old materia medica book online which details how to convert it by roasting. Since the orpiment is one tenth the price of normal arsenic trioxide, this makes sense, but it's tricky work and not the safest. If I am pleased with the results, I will take the time to detail the process, but if it doesn't work, I will have to buy the right stuff, and it's not cheap.

David · 14th May 2014, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Workman

I am sure that has a lot to do with it, also my arsenic is not what it should be. I am using artists orpiment, which is arsenic trisulphide. It ought to be arsenic trioxide, but I found an old materia medica book online which details how to convert it by roasting. Since the orpiment is one tenth the price of normal arsenic trioxide, this makes sense, but it's tricky work and not the safest. If I am pleased with the results, I will take the time to detail the process, but if it doesn't work, I will have to buy the right stuff, and it's not cheap.

That sounds like more trouble than it's worth and a safety issue as well. I recommend that you purchase the arsenic trioxide if you have a source for it. I bought a gram of it for $25 some a few years ago and still have about half that supply. It goes a long way.

S.Workman · 14th May 2014, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

That sounds like more trouble than it's worth and a safety issue as well. I recommend that you purchase the arsenic trioxide if you have a source for it. I bought a gram of it for $25 some a few years ago and still have about half that supply. It goes a long way.

I can't find a supply, but I have abandoned the attempt to roast it. The hindu materia medica stated that those who roast orpiment don't have a long life. It ended up being sketchy and a big potential pain. I presently have two keris disassembled, and I may just put them back together with a good oiling and wait for a more propitious time. My weather is frequently bad, and this arsenic thing is a big drag for me.

David · 14th May 2014, 11:35 PM

I am glad to here that you are abandoning your "roasting" idea, but i don't think you need to give up altogether if you really want to pursue this. Arsenic trioxide is difficult to obtain, but not impossible. BTW, i was wrong about amounts. I actually bought a 25 gm. bottle some years ago for $25. But there was a hazardous transport fee and the final cost came to just under $50. I just looked on line and found 100 gm. supplies selling for about $60 (plus hazard fee). Considering how much you use in the process that isn't really too expensive. I don't want to make a commercial announcement here, but try googling "arsenic trioxide for sale".
I have spent plenty of time in Vermont and i know that you definitely get a few weather windows of opportunity up there…

S.Workman · 15th May 2014, 07:34 PM

I will have to search out arsenic, I wonder if the arsenic reagent, which is a liquid it seems, has any use in this context? In any event, Vermont being Vermont, it looks like a week of alternatively hot and muggy and hot and rainy weather, following a long period of rainy, chilly and windy weather. I guess I have a bit of a wait.
The keris that I referred to earlier, which seems to have no pamor and which smelled very odd, can just be given a light acid bath and then an oil, is that right? I am fairly sure that there is no pamor because my orpiment technique, while a failure, did at least reveal the pamor on my other keris. There just wasn't a satisfying amount of contrast, just a sharp but light definition between lines. That's what makes me think that there is no pamor on that keris. Once I get it cleaned up, I will post some pictures. It's very nice, at least to my untrained eyes, and quite simple, which is a style I favor. I am hoping to test myself by posting pictures, along with what I believe to be the proper descriptives to see if I am right or if I could use some correction, if that's alright by board standards.

David · 16th May 2014, 12:04 AM

Yes, posting photos would be a great idea, even before you finish cleaning them up. Actually seeing the results you got so far can help us advise you. Also keep in mind that not all keris with pamor will give a high contrast effect. It will all depend on a number of factors, including what type of material was used for the pamor itself.
In regards to arsenic, i would recommend that you stay away from experimenting with other forms. What you want is arsenic trioxide for the best result. You will just be wasting time, energy and money otherwise.
Your second keris may or may not have pamor. Sometimes it can hide a bit. What are you using as a "light acid bath"?
Again, detailed photographs of both these keris will help us help you.

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13th May 2014, 05:03 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	In my experience, nothing but freshly squeezed tahitian limes will provide the fluid that you need. In Jawa they are not called Tahitian limes, but that's what they are sold as in Oz. In my previous house I had my own tree and harvested and prepared the juice when the limes came on, then I saved the juice in the deep freeze immediately, this worked OK too. You need to squeeze the limes, then strain the juice, then filter through clean cloth, I use an old, worn linen handerchief. As David has said, keris staining is a very delicate process, and not real easy to get a decent result. As with any skill, it takes time to learn.

14th May 2014, 11:35 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I am glad to here that you are abandoning your "roasting" idea, but i don't think you need to give up altogether if you really want to pursue this. Arsenic trioxide is difficult to obtain, but not impossible. BTW, i was wrong about amounts. I actually bought a 25 gm. bottle some years ago for $25. But there was a hazardous transport fee and the final cost came to just under $50. I just looked on line and found 100 gm. supplies selling for about $60 (plus hazard fee). Considering how much you use in the process that isn't really too expensive. I don't want to make a commercial announcement here, but try googling "arsenic trioxide for sale". I have spent plenty of time in Vermont and i know that you definitely get a few weather windows of opportunity up there…

15th May 2014, 07:34 PM	#6
S.Workman Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 116	I will have to search out arsenic, I wonder if the arsenic reagent, which is a liquid it seems, has any use in this context? In any event, Vermont being Vermont, it looks like a week of alternatively hot and muggy and hot and rainy weather, following a long period of rainy, chilly and windy weather. I guess I have a bit of a wait. The keris that I referred to earlier, which seems to have no pamor and which smelled very odd, can just be given a light acid bath and then an oil, is that right? I am fairly sure that there is no pamor because my orpiment technique, while a failure, did at least reveal the pamor on my other keris. There just wasn't a satisfying amount of contrast, just a sharp but light definition between lines. That's what makes me think that there is no pamor on that keris. Once I get it cleaned up, I will post some pictures. It's very nice, at least to my untrained eyes, and quite simple, which is a style I favor. I am hoping to test myself by posting pictures, along with what I believe to be the proper descriptives to see if I am right or if I could use some correction, if that's alright by board standards.

16th May 2014, 12:04 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Yes, posting photos would be a great idea, even before you finish cleaning them up. Actually seeing the results you got so far can help us advise you. Also keep in mind that not all keris with pamor will give a high contrast effect. It will all depend on a number of factors, including what type of material was used for the pamor itself. In regards to arsenic, i would recommend that you stay away from experimenting with other forms. What you want is arsenic trioxide for the best result. You will just be wasting time, energy and money otherwise. Your second keris may or may not have pamor. Sometimes it can hide a bit. What are you using as a "light acid bath"? Again, detailed photographs of both these keris will help us help you.