Islamic/Eastern European Crossguard

[Marc]

Ok, so, just to set the ball rolling, here I put some swords from the Military Museum in Istanbul that are labelled as 16th c. and that allegedly belonged to some of the Ottoman rulers of that time. Sadly, I know nothing about the reasons that may support such attributions (I suppose the inscriptions in the blade may have something to do with it) nor how reliable may they be.
In fact, I'm afraid I must confess I don't know enough about "eastern" swords of this period to really feel comfortable discussing the finer points of the origin of a crossguard typology, but I happened to have these pictures and thought they could contribute to this subject...

[Marc]

By the way, for more and much more detailed pictures, HERE is where I found them.

[Rivkin]

Astvatsaturjan, page 85, dates first sabres of this type to XVIth century.

[B.I]

hi,
thanks for the replies.
jens, i dont think the answer will appear in merv, but will happily ask ann. i am hoping that wolviex will join in (hint) or aqtai/kirill as i feel the answer will be in ottoman/mamluk/eastern europe.
marc, thank you for the images. the blades you show are wonderful, but unfortunately it is these swords that are leading the arguements against me. all the hilts are later. whilst i would hope the quillion blocks could have been original, the grips are definately a latr addition. the grip would have been slightly slanted off to one side with a pommel cap. btw, can you read french (an obscure and unrelated question)
kirill, this is interesting but can you expand as my 'great' library always seems ridiculously inadequate when you quote sources

[Marc]

Originally Posted by B.I

marc, thank you for the images. the blades you show are wonderful, but unfortunately it is these swords that are leading the arguements against me. all the hilts are later. whilst i would hope the quillion blocks could have been original, the grips are definately a latr addition. the grip would have been slightly slanted off to one side with a pommel cap. btw, can you read french (an obscure and unrelated question)
(

Thought so, but I felt it was at least worth a try. I'll keep my eyes open, anyway.
Yes, I can read French if I have to and there's no hurry. Why? E-mail me, if you want, just for not adding unrelated posts to this thread.

[Rivkin]

Originally Posted by B.I

kirill, this is interesting but can you expand as my 'great' library always seems ridiculously inadequate when you quote sources

Sorry about that. Attached are:
late "mamluk" (??) , and two "turkish" sabres, XVI century.