Historic Saudi sabre sells for $1 m

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ALEX

This is true. Below are similar saifs gifted to Harry S. Truman by the royal family of Saudi Arabia, now on display in HST Library in Independence, Missouri.

Salaams Alex... So true about the presentation nature of this great sword design/style. Here is Wikipedia on Safavid;


The Safavid dynasty (Persian: سلسلهٔ صفويان‎; Azerbaijani: Səfəvilər imperiyası, صفویلر) was one of the most significant ruling dynasties of Persia (modern Iran), and is often considered the beginning of modern Persian history. They ruled one of the greatest Persian empires after the Muslim conquest of Persia and established the Twelver school of Shi'a Islam as the official religion of their empire, marking one of the most important turning points in Muslim history. The Safavids ruled from 1501 to 1722 (experiencing a brief restoration from 1729 to 1736) and at their height, they controlled all of modern Iran, Azerbaijan and Armenia, most of Iraq, Georgia, Afghanistan, and the Caucasus, as well as parts of Pakistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Turkey. Safavid Iran was one of the Islamic "gunpowder empires", along with its neighbours, the Ottoman and Mughal empires.

The Safavid dynasty had its origin in the Safaviyya Sufi order, which was established in the city of Ardabil in the Azerbaijan region. It was of mixed ancestry (Azerbaijani, Kurdish Persian and Turkmen, which included intermarriages with Georgian and Pontic Greek dignitaries). From their base in Ardabil, the Safavids established control over all of Greater Iran and reasserted the Iranian identity of the region, thus becoming the first native dynasty since the Sassanid Empire to establish a unified Iranian state.

Despite their demise in 1736, the legacy that they left behind was the revival of Persia as an economic stronghold between East and West, the establishment of an efficient state and bureaucracy based upon "checks and balances", their architectural innovations and their patronage for fine arts. The Safavids have also left their mark down to the present era by spreading Shi'a Islam in Iran, as well as major parts of the Caucasus, South Asia, Central Asia, and Anatolia.

Please see below for the Shah Abbas Sword. Taken from the picture by Nasser-sadeghi at https://www.google.com/search?q=safa...ient=firefox-a

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ALEX]

The presence of Shah Abbas, Assad-Allah, etc. cartouches does not imply Safavid origin. this has been written and discussed so many times before So many of those cartouches were added later. The blade of presentation saif above is not Safavid. The one with two gold inlaid cartouches is more likely. but could be anywhere of 18-19 C i.e. early-late Qajar period.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ALEX

The presence of Shah Abbas, Assad-Allah, etc. cartouches does not imply Safavid origin. this has been written and discussed so many times before So many of those cartouches were added later. The blade of presentation saif above is not Safavid. The one with two gold inlaid cartouches is more likely. but could be anywhere of 18-19 C i.e. early-late Qajar period.

Salaams... Oh yes quite absolutely ... Like many masters his name was appearing on blades for a few hundred years..The subject blade has a couple of cartouche but I can't make out the words...which may lead us to discover the makers name? Not frankly that it makes a lot of difference...anyway I cite the detail on Safavid so that Forum library ... and those members wishing to refresh on that detail can easily do so.

I find the price tag interesting since the detail appears incorrect ... and for that money I would want a certain degree of accuracy...since clearly it is the photo and accompanying documents that have pumped the price.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Richard G]

In the second picture of King Abdul-Aziz in Riyadh in 1942 you will see most of his courtiers are wearing very similar swords.
Regards
Richard

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ALEX

The presence of Shah Abbas, Assad-Allah, etc. cartouches does not imply Safavid origin. this has been written and discussed so many times before So many of those cartouches were added later. The blade of presentation saif above is not Safavid. The one with two gold inlaid cartouches is more likely. but could be anywhere of 18-19 C i.e. early-late Qajar period.

Salaams ALEX ~ As we understand it.. There was a lot of copying of the name of the great Syrian Sword Maker who was then employed at the Safavid Royal Court...in about 1600... and whose name appeared on blades and the name of the Safavid ruler whose name also appeared on blades. Assad Ullah the sword maker and Shah Abbas the ruler. I have to say I had to dash into my library and seek out The Safavids in a bid to half buff up on that difficult period.

If the sword is not Safavid can you id its provenance?

I hope someone may clarify who the Gentleman is being presented with the sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

AFAIK, swords of Safavid era had no fullers.

Swords of that region were re-hilted and re-decorated with new cartouches, signatures or just phrases on multiple occasions. There are tons of fake Assadulla's and Kalbe Ali's swords made between 17th and 19th centuries, with signatures of Assadulla made on monosteel or Sham blades:-) That is why Figiel was so fastidious about high-class wootz patterns. Recently, I even saw pictures of a khanjar signed with Assadulla's name, even though swordmakers and knifemakers in Iran belonged to different guilds and were not on speaking terms with each other:-) An inscription on the blade proclaiming attribution to a famous master or personality almost always means nothing: it could have been incised centuries later.

The story of Assadulla being a Syrian rather than Iranian master is still very popular in Arab countries. I guess local patriotism plays not a small role :-)
The same about Safavid Iran being a " gunpowder empire": on the contrary, Safavids lacked artillery and that was the main reason why Ismail and Tahmasp were beaten by the Ottomans. Shah Abbas created artillery force only under British instruction, just like most of his army was composed of Turkish and Caucasian ghulams and led by Caucasians.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

AFAIK, swords of Safavid era had no fullers.

Swords of that region were re-hilted and re-decorated with new cartouches, signatures or just phrases on multiple occasions. There are tons of fake Assadulla's and Kalbe Ali's swords made between 17th and 19th centuries, with signatures of Assadulla made on monosteel or Sham blades:-) That is why Figiel was so fastidious about high-class wootz patterns. Recently, I even saw pictures of a khanjar signed with Assadulla's name, even though swordmakers and knifemakers in Iran belonged to different guilds and were not on speaking terms with each other:-) An inscription on the blade proclaiming attribution to a famous master or personality almost always means nothing: it could have been incised centuries later.

The story of Assadulla being a Syrian rather than Iranian master is still very popular in Arab countries. I guess local patriotism plays not a small role :-)
The same about Safavid Iran being a " gunpowder empire": on the contrary, Safavids lacked artillery and that was the main reason why Ismail and Tahmasp were beaten by the Ottomans. Shah Abbas created artillery force only under British instruction, just like most of his army was composed of Turkish and Caucasian ghulams and led by Caucasians.

Salaams Ariel, Yes the Assadulla story stems from Straight Street Damascus and the sword-makers therein...It is true that "gunpowder" is a very odd nickname for such a dynasty when it perhaps should have been called virtually cannon-less except for a few siege cannons they just never got into tactical battlefield cannons... but fought in what they considered the old chivalrous ways with bow and arrow and blades.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams ALEX ~ As we understand it.. There was a lot of copying of the name of the great Syrian Sword Maker who was then employed at the Safavid Royal Court...in about 1600... and whose name appeared on blades and the name of the Safavid ruler whose name also appeared on blades. Assad Ullah the sword maker and Shah Abbas the ruler. I have to say I had to dash into my library and seek out The Safavids in a bid to half buff up on that difficult period.

If the sword is not Safavid can you id its provenance?

I hope someone may clarify who the Gentleman is being presented with the sword.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

The signer of the accompanying document in French, post #10, Homayoun Shah Assefy, states that the sword was presented to his father (i.e. H.H. Sardar Ahmad Shah Khan (1899-1951), Minister of the Royal Court (1929-1951), a member of the Afghan Royal Family).
Regards,
Andreas

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

The signer of the accompanying document in French, post #10, Homayoun Shah Assefy, states that the sword was presented to his father (i.e. H.H. Sardar Ahmad Shah Khan (1899-1951), Minister of the Royal Court (1929-1951), a member of the Afghan Royal Family).
Regards,
Andreas[/QUOTE]


Salaams Andreas, That is amazing and well noted by you..Thank you so much.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.



Wikipedia notes that Quote "In the Royal Afghan Kingdom, the original Nishan-i-Sardari (Order of the Leader), founded by King Amanullah in 1923, was bestowed for exceptional service to the Crown by the Afghan monarch. Recipients enjoyed the titles of Sardar-i-Ala or Sardar-i-Ali before their names and also received grants of land. The original Order was disbanded in 1929, and was later revived by King Muhammad Zahir Shah. In addition, several important tribal leaders and chiefs in Afghanistan, were also designated as 'Sardars'." Unquote.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams all~ Key detail is contained under the Asia Section on Shamshir at http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/shamshir/index.html

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

... There was a lot of copying of the name of the great Syrian Sword Maker who was then employed at the Safavid Royal Court...in about 1600... ...
...
If the sword is not Safavid can you id its provenance?
...

Hello Ibrahiim,

Certainly, the famous AA signature was copied for centuries and cannot be taken as a sole attribute of provenance, the blade comes first. As for the subject blade, it is of later form, the cartouche is crude and typical Qajar combination of Lion and "O Giver of Life" (or "O Fulfiller of Needs" as per other version of the same translation).

I recommend the great Mr. Oliver Pinchot's article "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah", it should still be available on-line

Below are few relevant examples: AA cartouche on late Persian Kard, and an ineligible attempt to copy (Shah Abbas? IMHO) on a Qajar blade.
Any ideas on what this cartouche could say? Most cartouches were copied with well known statements, so it's strange that someone just created ineligible/ unreadable one.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ALEX

Hello Ibrahiim,

Certainly, the famous AA signature was copied for centuries and cannot be taken as a sole attribute of provenance, the blade comes first. As for the subject blade, it is of later form, the cartouche is crude and typical Qajar combination of Lion and "O Giver of Life" (or "O Fulfiller of Needs" as per other version of the same translation).

I recommend the great Mr. Oliver Pinchot's article "The Persian Shamshir and the Signature of Assad Allah", it should still be available on-line

Below are few relevant examples: AA cartouche on late Persian Kard, and an ineligible attempt to copy (Shah Abbas? IMHO) on a Qajar blade.
Any ideas on what this cartouche could say? Most cartouches were copied with well known statements, so it's strange that someone just created ineligible/ unreadable one.

Salaams~ Yes there is some meaning such as in the two cartouches the above appears to say Abbas, Shah Wallah. and Ali Assadullah (under..) ie Lion Of God..So you are on track with that.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.