cultures moderation tips for keris lovers

BluErf · 16th October 2005, 05:09 AM

Whoa, a lot of good discussion has transpired since I last looked at this post in early September.

It was a really informative look into the concept of 'Mahar' and more in the Javanese context. I'll just be 'sponging' off this thread.

Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by purwacarita

Hi Rick. The maker is mpu Jeno, isn't it?

The keris blade doesn't quite look like Empu Jeno's style, and also, I thought Empu Jeno would dress his kerises in Yogyakarta sheath and handle?

nechesh · 16th October 2005, 06:42 AM

First of all Ariel, there is a great deal of misunderstanding as to what magickal and mystical properties actually are. It's really hard to have a discussion about these things when we don't have a common definition of what we are talking about. If you choose to believe that the unseen world is non-existent i for one don't have any problem with that. Perhaps electricity, magnetism, gravity and even air itself also don't really exist because we can not see them.

Try reading a bit of modern physics if your interested in some deep mystic thought.

This doesn't really seem to be the proper forum to get into a debate as to whether or not such things exist. But to answer you question i suggest you pick up your application for your local branch of the Flat Earth Society.

ariel · 16th October 2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nechesh

First of all Ariel, there is a great deal of misunderstanding as to what magickal and mystical properties actually are. It's really hard to have a discussion about these things when we don't have a common definition of what we are talking about. If you choose to believe that the unseen world is non-existent i for one don't have any problem with that. Perhaps electricity, magnetism, gravity and even air itself also don't really exist because we can not see them.

Try reading a bit of modern physics if your interested in some deep mystic thought.

This doesn't really seem to be the proper forum to get into a debate as to whether or not such things exist. But to answer you question i suggest you pick up your application for your local branch of the Flat Earth Society.

To have my computer work, I need to connect it to the electrical outlet and if it falls off the desk it ends on the floor but not on the ceiling. Composition of air, its pressure and movement are easily measurable and you may try to hold your breath for a while or dive in your own bathtub to get a final proof of the air's existence. Where is the evidence that magic is real? I have recently read that 25% of Americans believe that the Sun rotates around the Earth .. Seems to me that Galileo died in vain...
As to the propriety of discussing such things on this Forum, I disagree. I have no problem with anybody maintaining his personal religious and occult beliefs. The minute these beliefs are expressed in connection with weapons (the topic of this Forum), they become a fair game for questioning. You would not hesitate to call me on the carpet if I posted here my personal belief that Shamshirs originally came from Nicaragua.

Rick · 16th October 2005, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ariel

You would not hesitate to call me on the carpet if I posted here my personal belief that Shamshirs originally came from Nicaragua.

You mean they didn't !?!

Seriously Ariel , swords and mysticism are historically and inextricably entwined throughout most Eastern and many Western cultures ; the cruciform shape of the European sword of the 12th and 13 century crusaders for example representing the sword as an implement of God's will ; Thulfiqar and the religious significance of the bifurcated blade to Muslims .

Nowhere is this mysticism more evident than in the keris .
I can see no problem with letting keris enthusiasts hash this subject out in the forum providing they do so in a polite and civilised manner .
I would however very much like to see this discourse continue in English because it is the 'lingua franca' of this forum .

I agree with you that we are getting somewhat mired in this thread and I think it is due mostly to language differences and interpretation .

The EEW forum is a buffet of sorts ; when passing through the line if you find a particular dish unappealing then don't put it on your plate .

nechesh · 16th October 2005, 04:22 PM

My point Ariel is that you are "calling to the carpet" beliefs which are a matter of faith, not science. The measurement of the scientific phenomenon which you mention is all fine and good, but you must also remember that scientist have a way of developing methods of measurement that fit into the answers they are seeking. Probably why the answers keep changing as science continually develops "better" methods of measurement.(i just found out yesterday that Mt. Everest is actually 14 ft. shorter than previously thought

). So tell me, does sub-atomic material take the form of a particle or a wave? All depends on how you look at it.

Where is the evidence that magic is real? I don't need any. That's part of what faith is all about. My personal experiences are my own. I know what i know and don't need to qualify it by the scientfic methods of others. But i have had my own experiences with the unseen world which equal your experience with your computer's electric problems and picking it up off the floor after a fall.(i.e. they are very real to me)

I have no great need, however, to prove them to you or anyone else for that matter. While i would have little problem calling ones science to the carpet, i would personally think twice before calling ones faith there.

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16th October 2005, 06:42 AM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	First of all Ariel, there is a great deal of misunderstanding as to what magickal and mystical properties actually are. It's really hard to have a discussion about these things when we don't have a common definition of what we are talking about. If you choose to believe that the unseen world is non-existent i for one don't have any problem with that. Perhaps electricity, magnetism, gravity and even air itself also don't really exist because we can not see them. Try reading a bit of modern physics if your interested in some deep mystic thought. This doesn't really seem to be the proper forum to get into a debate as to whether or not such things exist. But to answer you question i suggest you pick up your application for your local branch of the Flat Earth Society.

16th October 2005, 04:22 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	My point Ariel is that you are "calling to the carpet" beliefs which are a matter of faith, not science. The measurement of the scientific phenomenon which you mention is all fine and good, but you must also remember that scientist have a way of developing methods of measurement that fit into the answers they are seeking. Probably why the answers keep changing as science continually develops "better" methods of measurement.(i just found out yesterday that Mt. Everest is actually 14 ft. shorter than previously thought ). So tell me, does sub-atomic material take the form of a particle or a wave? All depends on how you look at it. Where is the evidence that magic is real? I don't need any. That's part of what faith is all about. My personal experiences are my own. I know what i know and don't need to qualify it by the scientfic methods of others. But i have had my own experiences with the unseen world which equal your experience with your computer's electric problems and picking it up off the floor after a fall.(i.e. they are very real to me) I have no great need, however, to prove them to you or anyone else for that matter. While i would have little problem calling ones science to the carpet, i would personally think twice before calling ones faith there.