Different Borneo sword

[David]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Too bad this interesting thread ends with discussing just blade-ends. It clearly doesnt bring us anywhere. Or let me ask the question than; Where does that lead us??
(the first mandau I showed with the somewhat simple scabbard (of softer wood) does look almost the same as Roy's , but ofcourse I seem to be mistaken???)
Also Roy brought up a quite interesting question I have overlooked myself (as first attributing this piece to a specific region as seems logical) about the square hole. This hole is indeed 'very square' and seems to be created that way for a specific reason. Normally these holes are for insertion for (human) hair, but clearly a hole doesnt need to be so pronouncedly square to have hair inserted!
But nevermind this (highly interesting) question and lets talk about something else (unimportant!).

Seriously Indiana, i suggest that you concentrate your efforts more on bringing more of your own to the conversation and spend less time ragging on the contributions of others. Member will lead the their own questions in directions that interest them and you are just as free to do the same yourself. Present your questions, state your case, but don't demand of others that they find the same things "important" and "interesting" as you do.
And btw, i do not see how this threaded has in any way come to an "end".

[Royston]

Hello Gentlemen

Thanks for all the interest and comments so far.

Sorry not to have taken part for a while but I am away from home and the internet connection here is terrible, it sometimes takes over an hour just to get a logged in !
I will not be back at home for another 3 weeks so cannot take any more photos.
On my return I will try and get some close-ups of both the end of the blade and the hilt.
I'll also double check to see if any of mine are similar but I am sure they are not.

My gut instinct is that has been "trimmed " down, but I would love to be proved wrong.

Thanks again

Roy

[Royston]

Sorry

I intended to mention that the blade is indeed flat

Cheers
Roy

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Royston

Sorry not to have taken part for a while but I am away from home and the internet connection here is terrible, it sometimes takes over an hour just to get a logged in !

Wow... is that in Wales or Scotland.

[VANDOO]

THE WOOD USED FOR THIS HANDLE SHOWS THE GRAIN AND APPEARS TO BE SOFT WOOD PERHAPS PINE OR SOME SORT OF EVERGREEN TREE NOT THE NORMAL TYPES USED. THE BLADE MAY HAVE BEEN MADE AS IT IS BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL PIECE OF METAL WAS SMALLER THAN THE USUAL SIZE OR BECAUSE THE BUYER WANTED IT MADE THAT WAY
I HAVE SEEN GOOD POINTS MADE BY ALL WHO HAVE POSTED SO FAR TRYING TO PIN DOWN INFORMATION ON THIS DYAK SWORD.
I HAVE HESITATED TO ADD TO THIS POST AS I DON'T WISH TO BE REQUIRED TO STAY STRICTLY TO WHAT SOMEONE ELSE THINKS I SHOULD ADD. I AM NOT CLOSE TO AS KNOWLEGABLE AS THOSE ALREADY POSTING AND COULD NOT GIVE BOOK REFRENCE, TITLE,PAGE AND PARAGRAPH FOR ANYTHING I MIGHT SAY.
I SEEM TO SEE ALL OF ONE KNOWLEGABLE MEMBERS POSTS BEING CRITICIZED BY ANOTHER KNOWLEGABLE MEMBER AND EVERYTHING BEING EITHER LABLED CONFUZING AND OFF TOPIC OR NOT UP TO THE SCHOLARSHIP REQUIRED FOR THIS FORUM. I AM SURPRIZED A MODERATOR HAS SCOLDED THIS MEMBER TOO. THIS IS NOT A CONTEST WHERE ONE MUST WIN AND ANOTHER LOSE BUT THAT ALL MAY LEARN, SO I ADD THIS COMMENT
THIS SORT OF THING MAY ENCOURAGE MEMBERS NOT TO POST AT ALL ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE NO CREDIENTIALS IN THE FIELD. I HAVE NO CREDIENTALS, HAVE WRITTEN NO BOOKS AND CAN'T QUOTE FROM ALL THE REFRENCES I HAVE READ OVER THE YEARS. BUT I OR A BEGINNER MAY OCASIONALY THROW IN A QUESTION THAT MIGHT REVEAL ANOTHER DIRECTION OF THOUGHT TO PERSUE.
THIS SORT OF THING CAN SCARE OFF THE NOVICE OR THOSE LESS INCLINED TO SPEAK OUT THAN MYSELF OR EVEN CAUSE A VALUABLE AND KNOWLEGABLE MEMBER TO MOVE ON. WE WANT TO ATTRACT NEW YOUNGER COLLECTORS TO THE FIELD AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO GET INVOLVED AND HAVE FUN. THIS IS THE ONLY FORUM I VISIT AND POST ON BECAUSE IT IS FRIENDLY AND OPEN UNLIKE OTHERS I VISITED LONG AGO AND FOUND NO TOLERANCE, WELCOME OR FUN.

[VVV]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

snip
THIS IS NOT A CONTEST WHERE ONE MUST WIN AND ANOTHER LOSE BUT THAT ALL MAY LEARN, SO I ADD THIS COMMENT
THIS SORT OF THING CAN SCARE OFF THE NOVICE OR THOSE LESS INCLINED TO SPEAK OUT THAN MYSELF OR EVEN CAUSE A VALUABLE AND KNOWLEGABLE MEMBER TO MOVE ON. WE WANT TO ATTRACT NEW YOUNGER COLLECTORS TO THE FIELD AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO GET INVOLVED AND HAVE FUN. THIS IS THE ONLY FORUM I VISIT AND POST ON BECAUSE IT IS FRIENDLY AND OPEN UNLIKE OTHERS I VISITED LONG AGO AND FOUND NO TOLERANCE, WELCOME OR FUN.

Barry,

I fully agree as long as everybody is here on the forum to share information in a honest way. AFAIK there is only one member out of more than 1 200 that I, and some of the other European Borneo-collectors, have a problem with regarding this.
Unless you feel that I use this, maybe too, harsh tone against any other forumites please try to understand there is an implicit context behind it in this specific case which in the long run at least I feel may benefit the forum.

Michael

PS I hope I am allowed to disclose that this specific member also is a commercial player...

[David]

Originally Posted by VVV

Barry,

I fully agree as long as everybody is here on the forum to share information in a honest way. AFAIK there is only one member out of more than 1 200 that I, and some of the other European Borneo-collectors, have a problem with regarding this.
Unless you feel that I use this, maybe too, harsh tone against any other forumites please try to understand there is an implicit context behind it in this specific case which in the long run at least I feel may benefit the forum.

Michael

PS I hope I am allowed to disclose that this specific member also is a commercial player...

I would love to see members that have problems with other members from past experience work out those problems outside the forum threads, not within them. If you have problems with specific members this is something that you should be bringing up privately with the moderation team, not airing publicly in the forums through subtle innuendo. BTW, many of our members are "commercial players". It's how they play in this sandbox that counts. What we expect is civil and friendly discourse.

[VVV]

Back to the Roy's parang again...
Tonight I had a meeting with two quite experienced Borneo collectors handling and discussing some 40 - 50 different kind of Dayak parang, mostly from Sarawak and Sabah.
We also discussed the square holes that we found on several of them. Quite often they were found on hilts from the Baram river in Sarawak and sometimes on hilts we attributed to Dusun much further North in Sabah. The sample is of course much too small for anything else than vague indications. Some had hair in them, some had not.
One of the collectors (he is not active on this forum and he is in my opinion one of the top in understanding the finer details of Dayak motifs on swords and shields and how they are done) suggested that a square hole better locks a hair plug in place than a round hole. I am not a very handy guy myself but to me that sounded reasonable.

Michael

[Royston]

Back home at last and here are some more photos.
If the end has been shortened it has been done well as there is a slight " step" still visible.
Is it possible that the blade was fixed to the hilt in the usual manor and someone in the past has cleaned off all the extra gum ?

Roy

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Royston

Back home at last and here are some more photos.
If the end has been shortened it has been done well as there is a slight " step" still visible.
Is it possible that the blade was fixed to the hilt in the usual manor and someone in the past has cleaned off all the extra gum ?

Roy

Hi Roy, Welcome home!
Yes it's done very well, but I stick with my first impression it had been shortened once because one of another reason, but a long, long time ago.

About the fixed hilt: Usually the handle had a big round hole.
They heated up the "kemalau" / "getah percha" which is a kind of resin.
When it was getting fluid, they filled the big hole in the handle with it.
Thereafter they sticked the tang of the blade firmly into the (still fluid) resin.
After hardening, this substance causes a firm connection between the blade and the handle.

The hilt than was wrapped with ratan fiber or metal wire (brass/silver).
The transition between hilt and blade usually was accomodated with a resin ring (sometimes also made from horn, silver or brass instead of resin).
Never have seen it from wood, till now......
Can you have a look if you can see this piece of wood at the transition is a loose part, or is it carved in one piece with the handle?

Maurice

[Royston]

Hello Maurice

It is one piece, carved with the handle.

Roy

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Royston

It is one piece, carved with the handle.

Thanks Roy.
All I can add is that I've never have seen it before.


Maurice