Large Sudanese Dagger For Comment

Lew · 27th August 2005, 03:56 AM

Hi Guys

This is the newest addition to my Sudanese dagger collection. The blade is 13.5" long with a 4.5" ebony hilt topped with a silver finale. The scabbard is crocodile skin with the remnents of some type of animal fur around the throat? The blade has some very nice engraving on it. It seems quite old maybe 19th century? Let me know what you think?

Lew

Flavio · 27th August 2005, 10:46 AM

Hi Lew. I had seen this beautiful dagger on ebay !! EXCELLENT!!!! I'm rather envious!!! GRRRRRR

Lew · 27th August 2005, 06:07 PM

Hi Flavio

Your not alone I know of one other forum member who feels the same and I didn't realize we were bidding on the same item (My apologies). Can anyone ID the fur on the scabbard? I don't think it's leopard but could it be cheetah fur?

Lew

fearn · 27th August 2005, 06:27 PM

Could be cheetah, Louie.

There are some other small cats, like serval, and were I betting, I'd guess one of the smaller ones. Hard to without a scale and a close look, though.

F

Jim McDougall · 29th August 2005, 07:28 AM

Hi Lew,
Thats a beauty allright!! Wow!!

This appears to be of the form often seen from Northern Sudan, most likely Dongola region (between 3rd and 4th cataracts on the Nile). It seems that these typically had an unusual drooping 'T' handle type pommel contrary to the form on this one, however the blade shape seems consistant. The 19th century examples typically, at least the ones I have seen, had a blade motif focused on a centrally located crocodile seen from above, along with geometric designs. Yours has interesting geometric designs which the central motif may well be highly stylized interpretation of the crocodile.
The hilt and highly stylized, cross hatched geometric designs seem to suggest this is likely into the 20th century. These weapons have remained highly important accoutrements among Sudanese men, much in the same manner as the janbiyya in Arabia, and are highly valued as symbols of manhood. Extremely nice example!

All the best,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 29th August 2005, 03:28 PM

Very nice knife, an excellent addition to your collection. It might not be the oldest knife in your collection but the condition is great. Tim

Ferguson · 30th August 2005, 10:57 AM

I love the style, and it's in beautiful condition. Nice snag!

Steve

derek · 30th August 2005, 03:12 PM

Hi Lew,
I watched that one. Great to see you got it. Its beautiful and just a little unusual. Definitely a keeper.
-d

RobT · 14th September 2005, 02:41 AM

Hello All,
I am posting pictures of a recently acquired piece with a similar blade (with similar engraving) and sheath but with a very dissimilar hilt. The blade, in desperate need of cleaning, measures 9 7/8 " (25 cm) long and 1" (2.54 cm) wide at the hilt. The hilt measures 4 3/8" (11.11 cm). The pommel is a disk of iron about the size and thickness of a 50¢ piece and is presumably integral with the blade and hilt. I think there is leather under the the reptile hilt wrap (there is some give when the hilt is squeezed). I am pretty sure that the style of hilt on my blade is original but the blade on the subject of this thread looks too slender for its classic Sudanese hilt. Could this mounting be the result of trade or the spoils of war among different ethnic groups or is it merely a not commonly seen variant?
Sincerely,
RobT

27th August 2005, 03:56 AM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Large Sudanese Dagger For Comment Hi Guys This is the newest addition to my Sudanese dagger collection. The blade is 13.5" long with a 4.5" ebony hilt topped with a silver finale. The scabbard is crocodile skin with the remnents of some type of animal fur around the throat? The blade has some very nice engraving on it. It seems quite old maybe 19th century? Let me know what you think? Lew Attached Images

14th September 2005, 02:41 AM	#9
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 487	similar blade, different hilt Hello All, I am posting pictures of a recently acquired piece with a similar blade (with similar engraving) and sheath but with a very dissimilar hilt. The blade, in desperate need of cleaning, measures 9 7/8 " (25 cm) long and 1" (2.54 cm) wide at the hilt. The hilt measures 4 3/8" (11.11 cm). The pommel is a disk of iron about the size and thickness of a 50¢ piece and is presumably integral with the blade and hilt. I think there is leather under the the reptile hilt wrap (there is some give when the hilt is squeezed). I am pretty sure that the style of hilt on my blade is original but the blade on the subject of this thread looks too slender for its classic Sudanese hilt. Could this mounting be the result of trade or the spoils of war among different ethnic groups or is it merely a not commonly seen variant? Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

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27th August 2005, 10:46 AM	#2
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Lew. I had seen this beautiful dagger on ebay !! EXCELLENT!!!! I'm rather envious!!! GRRRRRR

27th August 2005, 06:07 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Hi Flavio Your not alone I know of one other forum member who feels the same and I didn't realize we were bidding on the same item (My apologies). Can anyone ID the fur on the scabbard? I don't think it's leopard but could it be cheetah fur? Lew

27th August 2005, 06:27 PM	#4
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Could be cheetah, Louie. There are some other small cats, like serval, and were I betting, I'd guess one of the smaller ones. Hard to without a scale and a close look, though. F

29th August 2005, 07:28 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,942	Hi Lew, Thats a beauty allright!! Wow!! This appears to be of the form often seen from Northern Sudan, most likely Dongola region (between 3rd and 4th cataracts on the Nile). It seems that these typically had an unusual drooping 'T' handle type pommel contrary to the form on this one, however the blade shape seems consistant. The 19th century examples typically, at least the ones I have seen, had a blade motif focused on a centrally located crocodile seen from above, along with geometric designs. Yours has interesting geometric designs which the central motif may well be highly stylized interpretation of the crocodile. The hilt and highly stylized, cross hatched geometric designs seem to suggest this is likely into the 20th century. These weapons have remained highly important accoutrements among Sudanese men, much in the same manner as the janbiyya in Arabia, and are highly valued as symbols of manhood. Extremely nice example! All the best, Jim

29th August 2005, 03:28 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Very nice knife, an excellent addition to your collection. It might not be the oldest knife in your collection but the condition is great. Tim

30th August 2005, 10:57 AM	#7
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I love the style, and it's in beautiful condition. Nice snag! Steve

30th August 2005, 03:12 PM	#8
derek Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 215	Hi Lew, I watched that one. Great to see you got it. Its beautiful and just a little unusual. Definitely a keeper. -d