Keris for comment

[A. G. Maisey]

Gene, we don't really try to date keris in the way that you would think of time.

A collector in the western world will often try to attach a date to a keris so that it makes sense to him, but in keris culture in Jawa we don't date in terms of calendar years, we classify in terms of tangguh. There have been thousands of words written on this subject in this forum.

Briefly and simply tangguh is a system best applied to keris of very good quality; when applied to a relatively recent keris the determination of tangguh will often give an indication of a time frame that will make sense in terms of time as you understand it, however, the more distant from the present that a tangguh becomes, the less relevant that tangguh is to actual calendar years, until eventually you enter the realm of myth and legend.

It is very important to understand that the keris is embedded in belief systems, and these belief systems do not necessarily revere the formal measurement of time, nor interpret it, in the same way that you as a product of Western European culture do.

It is very difficult to apply an appraisal of tangguh to a photograph, as some of the things which need to be assessed to form an opinion cannot be assessed from a photo, so my opinion here is not being given based upon tangguh indicators. To me this looks like an East Jawa, probably Madura keris, and dating from around 1800 --- give or take 50 years either side of 1800. Stylistically it is Mataram, and because it is East Jawa we can use one of the alternate names for the pamor and call that 'pamor singkir'. Singkir was a Majapahit empu who was known for this type of adeg pamor.

[Jean]

Attached are the pictures of another kris blade with pamor Adeg Sapu from my collection. The blade was recently cleaned in Solo and is probably not as old as estimated by Alan for Gene's blade.
Best regards

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Jean

Attached are the pictures of another kris blade with pamor Adeg Sapu from my collection. The blade was recently cleaned in Solo and is probably not as old as estimated by Alan for Gene's blade.
Best regards

Hi Jean,
Thank you, it's nice to see how mine would look with a restain. Thats a fine looking Keris you have there.

Best
Gene

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Gene, we don't really try to date keris in the way that you would think of time.

A collector in the western world will often try to attach a date to a keris so that it makes sense to him, but in keris culture in Jawa we don't date in terms of calendar years, we classify in terms of tangguh. There have been thousands of words written on this subject in this forum.

Briefly and simply tangguh is a system best applied to keris of very good quality; when applied to a relatively recent keris the determination of tangguh will often give an indication of a time frame that will make sense in terms of time as you understand it, however, the more distant from the present that a tangguh becomes, the less relevant that tangguh is to actual calendar years, until eventually you enter the realm of myth and legend.

It is very important to understand that the keris is embedded in belief systems, and these belief systems do not necessarily revere the formal measurement of time, nor interpret it, in the same way that you as a product of Western European culture do.

It is very difficult to apply an appraisal of tangguh to a photograph, as some of the things which need to be assessed to form an opinion cannot be assessed from a photo, so my opinion here is not being given based upon tangguh indicators. To me this looks like an East Jawa, probably Madura keris, and dating from around 1800 --- give or take 50 years either side of 1800. Stylistically it is Mataram, and because it is East Jawa we can use one of the alternate names for the pamor and call that 'pamor singkir'. Singkir was a Majapahit empu who was known for this type of adeg pamor.

Hi Alan,

Excellent information thank you very much.

Best
Gene

[tunggulametung]

Gene, I vote to not stain this particular blade (some will agree, some will not)--or generally old hopefully antique pieces/with nice patina, just a light coat of oil. The other day I oil my garden bench and all of the sudden it looks totally new and I missed all that old charm . Oil and staining if you go that route has been discussed several times on this kerispedia.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Gene, I vote to not stain this particular blade (some will agree, some will not)--or generally old hopefully antique pieces/with nice patina, just a light coat of oil. The other day I oil my garden bench and all of the sudden it looks totally new and I missed all that old charm . Oil and staining if you go that route has been discussed several times on this kerispedia.

Thank you. I like it as it is too

I'm going to take some more pictures of another Keris with burl wood fittings if you are online in about 10 minuites?

[A. G. Maisey]

Gene, I also would probably not restain this keris. Generally the inclination of most collectors is to try to bring a keris to a premium condition of stain, but unless one has access to a first class m'ranggi, or possesses the knowledge and skill to do a first class job himself, it is probably not a good idea to restain a blade when it still has a more or less acceptable appearance.

It takes a lot of practice to be able to do a good stain job, and the option of sending a blade to Indonesia for staining is in my opinion not really an option at all, because what you get is a very inferior commercial job that often leaves the blade looking worse than it did before the job was done. Its cheap enough, certainly, but you get what you pay for.

It is possible for a really good stain job to take a skilled m'ranggi two or three days to do, and I'm talking working time, not expired time. However, to get access to the people who work at this high-class level is not easy and you probably need to be a part of a local keris community to know who to approach.