Ethiopian alternative straight swords

Iain · 21st April 2012, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wood

...the straight-bladed kaskara-like swords were associated with the Coptic priesthood which was administered from Alexandria until 1959.

Interesting, I assume you are referring to the type show in the second image at the start of this thread. A reference would be good on this apparently known association...

Iain · 4th November 2012, 06:14 PM

Hi Stephen, I just wanted to bump this up again in case we could get more info on the connection with the coptic priesthood you mentioned?

Jim McDougall · 4th November 2012, 09:48 PM

Now thats patience Iain!!!! 7 months

Im glad you brought this up again though, it would indeed be interesting to discover how these 'straight' kaskara like swords are used in the Coptic Church in thier ceremonial perspective. I am curious if there are curved types as well and if also included in such context.

Iain · 4th November 2012, 10:21 PM

Hehe Jim, I'm in it for the long haul I guess and still intrigued by Coptic connection. I've done a little searching through some period sources but didn't turn up anything yet.

Hopefully Stephen still stops by often enough to see this.

Jim McDougall · 5th November 2012, 12:18 AM

I'm with you Iain, and hope he sees this thread, possibly this information was in his presentation on the kaskara some years ago to the Arms and Armour Society in London.
I cannot fathom the connection of these notably Islamic swords with the Coptic Priesthood in Egypt, but have some information and thoughts on the unique style of these dual pommel kaskaras in the meantime.

In an exhibition titled "Sudan in the Age of the Mahdi" by Tim Kendall some years ago, he cited that kaskara with twin flattened hollow spheres filled with small beans or pebbles were common with the mounted nobility in Darfur during Mahdist times. Apparantly they would charge full gallop at captuted troops and stop short, waving thier swords with loud rattling over thier heads to frighten them.
This is sourced :
"Mahdism and the Egyptian Sudan" F.R. Wingate London, 1891, p.137
"Ten Years in the Mahdis Camp 1882-1892", same author , 1892 , on Father Ohrwalders ordeal, p.92

One of the swords in the exhibition was of this type. While the example shown here in the original post has the familiar discoid pommel with secondary disc of lesser propertion, the dual concept seems to reflect in it.

As far as the Ethiopian attribution, there was a form of kaskara type sword produced apparantly for Abyssinia or Red Sea trade which had fullered broadsword blades often with Amharic inscriptions and Lion of Judah made usually by Wilkinson. These seem to have been hilted in Yemen with a different crossguard shape and domed pommel which seems to have been repousse silverwork. Perhaps the hollowed pommel on these may have been source for the Ethiopian association. By the same token, though not directly associated there do seem to have been certain connections between the varying Christian Orthodox Copts and those in Ethiopia. Perhaps these elements may account for the associations...hopefully more definitive answer will ensue.

All the best,
Jim

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4th November 2012, 06:14 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Hi Stephen, I just wanted to bump this up again in case we could get more info on the connection with the coptic priesthood you mentioned?

4th November 2012, 09:48 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Now thats patience Iain!!!! 7 months Im glad you brought this up again though, it would indeed be interesting to discover how these 'straight' kaskara like swords are used in the Coptic Church in thier ceremonial perspective. I am curious if there are curved types as well and if also included in such context.

4th November 2012, 10:21 PM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Hehe Jim, I'm in it for the long haul I guess and still intrigued by Coptic connection. I've done a little searching through some period sources but didn't turn up anything yet. Hopefully Stephen still stops by often enough to see this.

5th November 2012, 12:18 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I'm with you Iain, and hope he sees this thread, possibly this information was in his presentation on the kaskara some years ago to the Arms and Armour Society in London. I cannot fathom the connection of these notably Islamic swords with the Coptic Priesthood in Egypt, but have some information and thoughts on the unique style of these dual pommel kaskaras in the meantime. In an exhibition titled "Sudan in the Age of the Mahdi" by Tim Kendall some years ago, he cited that kaskara with twin flattened hollow spheres filled with small beans or pebbles were common with the mounted nobility in Darfur during Mahdist times. Apparantly they would charge full gallop at captuted troops and stop short, waving thier swords with loud rattling over thier heads to frighten them. This is sourced : "Mahdism and the Egyptian Sudan" F.R. Wingate London, 1891, p.137 "Ten Years in the Mahdis Camp 1882-1892", same author , 1892 , on Father Ohrwalders ordeal, p.92 One of the swords in the exhibition was of this type. While the example shown here in the original post has the familiar discoid pommel with secondary disc of lesser propertion, the dual concept seems to reflect in it. As far as the Ethiopian attribution, there was a form of kaskara type sword produced apparantly for Abyssinia or Red Sea trade which had fullered broadsword blades often with Amharic inscriptions and Lion of Judah made usually by Wilkinson. These seem to have been hilted in Yemen with a different crossguard shape and domed pommel which seems to have been repousse silverwork. Perhaps the hollowed pommel on these may have been source for the Ethiopian association. By the same token, though not directly associated there do seem to have been certain connections between the varying Christian Orthodox Copts and those in Ethiopia. Perhaps these elements may account for the associations...hopefully more definitive answer will ensue. All the best, Jim