Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 25th March 2012, 01:02 AM   #1
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,857
Default More Moro(?) spears....

I was able to pick these up last weekend at the Baltimore show and both were in horrendous condition when I got them, so I have enjoyed working on them on and off this week, and here are the results. I really wish i had done these as "before and after" pics, just so you could see how much work went into them!

I presume the larger one is Moro for sure....It is about 8ft. overall, with a blade of 19in., so it is massive! The blade has a patten welded core that was evident even its original state.

The second one is presumely Moro as well, but MUCH less sure. The spear is about 7ft. overall, and blade is leaf shaped and 13in. long, with a chieselled out panel in the middle. The curious thing is the banded ferrule of some white metal alloy. Please note the figures in each panel, all different in each panel, but two are more recognisable figures. Both figures appear to have Japanese/Chinese motifs and characteristics to me...one, looks like a lady in robes, the other, a dragon(?).

This strikes me as very odd for a Moro spear. I know the Moros were not Muslim purists, and that there were other influences in their form of Islam, but these figures seems strange by any Filipino standard, much less the Moro, who via Islam, should not have looked affectionately at figures in art, and certainly not human figures, and even less likely, women!

I am anxious to hear feedback and comments on this one in particular.

I feel certain these are all from Moroland as they were with a 'veteran' lot of 6 spears, five of them no doubt Moro, but this one just didn't quite seem to fit in for the reasons mentioned above.
Attached Images
     

Last edited by CharlesS; 25th March 2012 at 02:36 PM.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 04:36 AM   #2
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default

Or Chinese motifs... Understand that there were pockets of chines
e population in Mindanao and Sulu. I vote Moro, bro...
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 06:03 AM   #3
Nathaniel
Member
 
Nathaniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 865
Default

Fantastic pieces Charles! Thanks for showing us the fruits of your labor. They look great! I think the it looks Chinese as well. Hardly a place in Asia you can go and not find Chinese communities!

Last edited by Nathaniel; 25th March 2012 at 06:14 AM.
Nathaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 09:20 AM   #4
Robert
EAAF Staff
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centerville, Kansas
Posts: 2,196
Default

These are both great looking spears Charles and you have also done a very nice job of cleaning and restoration on them. I too especially like the one with the smaller blade and the engraved alloy collar. Can you tell if is it a silver alloy or not? Could you also post a picture of the complete spears? These would be a great addition to anyones collection, my congratulations to you on being able to acquire them for yours.

Robert
Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 02:36 PM   #5
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,857
Default

Thanks guys.

Robert, the length of these makes a full pic very difficult.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 03:02 PM   #6
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,781
Default

Hello Charles,

beautiful spears. Although I am not an expert I think that both are Moro, the way it look let me think like this.
Me too forget many times to take pictures before restauration jobs! olleyes:

Regards,

Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 04:02 AM   #7
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,857
Default

Thanks for the input guys!
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 04:17 AM   #8
nacho
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Makati
Posts: 69
Default

Hi Charles,

A similar moro spear was sold by Ashoka Arts last year. It also has the incised decoration using Chinese motif, on silver. This one has a twistcore blade. I have always wondered about this one, even at one point questioned whether it is moro (am now more convinced it is moro).

Edwin
Attached Images
   
nacho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 05:46 AM   #9
Nonoy Tan
Member
 
Nonoy Tan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 293
Default

I have seen these kind of spears (i.e. with Chinese motifs and/or characters) in some residences located on the eastern coast of Palawan, facing the Sulu Sea. Some areas there are predominantly Muslim. Also the influence of the Chinese in these parts of Sulu have been very strong, in the past as well as the present.
Nonoy Tan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 05:53 PM   #10
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,857
Default

Nacho,

Very interesting spear, and had someone asked be about it without having any clue torwards its actual attribution, I would be very pulled between Moro and Sumatran....Sumatran primarily because of the way the haft is worked.

Very interesting piece!
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 06:46 PM   #11
nacho
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Makati
Posts: 69
Default

This was posted by Lee, Nov 16, 2010. Similarly with incised decoration on silver. This one also has a twistcore blade.
Attached Images
 
nacho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 11:41 PM   #12
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,220
Default

What about Chinese Moros? There were some who had Chinese in their blood, and I heard of one even becoming a datu..........
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2012, 04:17 AM   #13
harimauhk
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 88
Default

The Chinese have definitely long been in and out of the Philippines: I was recently down in Basilan and Zamboanga, a stone's throw from Sulu, and there were Chinese businesses everywhere, even with the very real threat of shootouts and bombings. There has long been Chinese influence in the region. There was some very nice Chinese trade pottery on display at the museums in Sabah, Borneo too.
harimauhk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2012, 03:38 PM   #14
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,220
Default

Thank you Harimauhk, my point exactly.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th March 2012, 04:20 PM   #15
nacho
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Makati
Posts: 69
Default

Speaking of Chinese in Sulu, the current governor of Sulu is Abdusakur Tan. I guess the "Tan" surname indicates he has Chinese lineage.
nacho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2015, 06:27 PM   #16
kino
Member
 
kino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,002
Default Birds and the bees

It's not exactly plural. Adding to CharlesS complement of Chinese influenced Moro spears is this example. Described as a civilian Chinese spear, is an oddly shaped budiak. The spear head is ~12 in., from the tip to bottom of ferrule 22 in.
In my interpretation the etchings on the ferrule suggests that spring is in the air.
Attached Images
   
kino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th June 2015, 10:43 PM   #17
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,857
Default

Kino,

One of the strangest and most interesting spears I have seen. Could you please post a pic of the spear head together with the ferrule and a small part of the haft??? I am curious what the overall look is.

Certainly looks like Moro forging, but I would never have guessed it from the blade shape, which looks very Chinese or SE Asian.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2015, 02:28 AM   #18
kino
Member
 
kino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,002
Default

The total length of the spear is 69 inches.
Attached Images
 
kino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2015, 02:44 AM   #19
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,220
Default

What a weird and unique piece! Never seen its like before Kino, thanks for posting it.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2015, 06:48 PM   #20
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,857
Default

It's a "strange bird", but looks completely right together, and not a put together thing.

I love it!
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.