SCHIAVONA FOR COMMENTS

[Matchlock]

Hi 'Nando,

My friend says that this is a truly Portuguese (!) schiavona of quite late type, ca. 1730, so congratulations! Sadly, its state of conservation has obviously suffered from the sea climate.

Best,
Michl

[cornelistromp]

additional notes on previous posts.

a simple memory bridge on schiavona Hilts;

early schiavona Hilts have seperate loose bars overlapping (mid17thC), hereinafter schiavona hilts came with adjacent or fixed bars and a single mouse stairs (late 17thC) such as Fernando's sword, from 1700-1750 double stairs and after 1750 multiple mouse stairs.

best,

[fernando]

Thank you so much, Gentlemen.
I knew i could count on you .

Jim, your comprehensive input is always precious; i am much obliged for that.

Thanks a lot for having resourced Ottmar, Michl ... and what a surprise. Why Portuguese ? I have read of Slavonic soldiers using Schiavonas when fighting in Spain, but Portugal ?

Jasper, your remarks and enlightening pictures are, as always, of the best, and i thank you so much for that.

Well, i confess that, digesting the quoted provenance of this example as been Portuguese, is something that will keep me awake tonight .
If any of you Gentlemen wish to extend his opinion on such issue, i will gladly welcome it with great pleasure.

Just a note to report that, i find it interesting that this blade slightly widens in its last section. I wasn't expecting this feature in these swords or, at least, in this particular one.
Any ideas?


.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Fernando for acknowledging my post and the kind words. That means a lot to the old researcher here It was most rewarding to gather these notes, and even better to have had the great input from Jasper and Michael, which I have added to them.

I thought the blade seemed to widen toward the tip, but wasn't really paying enough attention as I was focused on the hilt. It seems to me that this type feature is like the 'yelman' on sabres which adds momentum to the slashing cut in additional weight at the end. On the Polish sabres with this feature I was once told that the widening was called by a Polish term which meant 'feather' in a wry way of referring to added weight.

I am very curious as well on the Portuguese attribution, and like you I knew of these Balkan troops fighting against Ottomans in Spain, but had not heard of these distinct basket hilt swords reaching Portugal.

All the best,
Jim

[cornelistromp]

Hi Fernando,

@ Jim,
a pleasure to meet you back on the forum, schiavona are your specialty, I believe!



I have consulted and updated my old schiavona knowledge and literature and have come to the conclusion that your schiavona is older as I originally expected.
There is an almost identical schiavona with a single-edged blade and similar hilt in the Stibbert Museum; inv 4873 and dated Venice 1620-1650.

Now that we're arrived at the Stibbert, I can not ignore the finest schiavona I know;
inv 2814 Veneto 1650, wonderful work of art.

So your Schiavona most probably comes from venice and I would date it without shame around 1650 latest.

best,
Jasper

[fernando]

Thanks for the tip on the blade and solidary doubts on this sword's provenance, Jim my friend .
I like the "feather" idea .


So glad with your new input and enlightening images, Jasper.
Mind you, i wouldn't mind swapping my example for this one at the Stibbert Museum

[Matchlock]

My friend's opinion irrevocably is: Portuguese, ca. 1730, considering that the blade is that of an early 18th c. cavalry backsword (Pallasch), a type not found in earlier Schiavonas, and the hilt - according to him - is of band iron.
Best,
Michael