SUDAN ? SPEAR WITH CHAINS & COINS

[thinreadline]

Here is a curiosity & favourite from my collection . I believe it is from the Sudan but have never known exactly what is is for. It is a short spear 30 cm in total , shaft covered in crocodile skin . The butt is of carved wood to which is attached a series of chains each terminating in a coin. It makes a splendid jangle when shaken , so I wondered if it was part of some dancing regalia ? Your opinions eagerly sought .

[colin henshaw]

Hi

I'm not really certain what this is - except to say I had a pair of similar pieces some years ago. An old collector at the time told me they were dance implements from Kordofan (Sudan). I've never seen any references and would be interested to know of any...

Regards.

[Andy Stevens]

We second the dance wand notion, seem to remember a post on the original forum way back when... interesting object.

[Iain]

Dance spear certainly makes sense to me.

The coins should be Egyptian.

http://www.anythinganywhere.com/comm...pics/egypt.htm

Of course a closeup of the coin can probably reveal the date to one of our resident Arabic readers. Of course with the caution the coins could be much older than the overall piece.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Iain

Dance spear certainly makes sense to me.

The coins should be Egyptian.

http://www.anythinganywhere.com/comm...pics/egypt.htm

Of course a closeup of the coin can probably reveal the date to one of our resident Arabic readers. Of course with the caution the coins could be much older than the overall piece.

I agree with Iain that the coins may be older than the item itself. They appear to have the Ottoman Tugra on them.
You should be able to ID them fairly easily. They look late to me, I'd guess they are for Abdulhamid II 1842-1918.

[thinreadline]

Thanks all of you ... that ties in with what I had believed. Here is a clearer pic of a coin with date if someone can translate .

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Thanks all of you ... that ties in with what I had believed. Here is a clearer pic of a coin with date if someone can translate .

Yep, you've got 1277 Hijira which I make 1860.
If my maths is right, then Abdulhamid II didn't take the throne until 1878 so the Tugra might be Murad V?
Assuming the date is the date of minting and not a generic date?

[thinreadline]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Yep, you've got 1277 Hijira which I make 1860.
If my maths is right, then Abdulhamid II didn't take the throne until 1878 so the Tugra must be Murad V?

Thats great .. thanks very much for your trouble .. I realise that does not make the item as old as that but it is good to know.

[Iain]

Seems to conform with a 10 qirsh piece, 1861-76.

http://www.icollector.com/images/166..._0437_2_lg.jpg

EDIT: Oop I see someone got the date for you.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by thinreadline

Thats great .. thanks very much for your trouble .. I realise that does not make the item as old as that but it is good to know.

Welcome mate.
Just to agree with Iain again, they do look Egyptian (ottoman egyptian).
If you look on teh bay and search for:
OTTOMAN EGYPT 1277 COIN
There is a similar one.

[Atlantia]

LOL, looks like you found one too Iain.

[Iain]

Yep posted at more or less the same time I think. I was enjoying exercising my Google fu today.

[Martin Lubojacky]

There is some resemblance with the item described in one of M. Zirngibel´s book (maybe Panga na visu) as, if I remember well, item belonging to dervish/Sudan (?)

[Vendric]

Just to add that AH 1277 is the Accession Date ofAbdul Aziz and the actual date of minting is given by the number at the top (in this case 9), so the actual date of minting was AH 1286.

Richard