Sudanese (?) Spear for Identification

[stephen wood]

...turned up on our favourite auction site

Looks Sudanese to me but not the acustomed spearhead shape...

...suggestions most welcome.

[Jim McDougall]

Wood on haft looks like ash or something like that on Btitish lances. The head looks like sheet steel. Production souvenier from post Mahdiyya industry?

[katana]

Hi Stephen,
I saw this on eBay (the seller was only a few miles from me) and had it gone cheaply would have risked it. The thin (sheet) spearhead was a concern, the shaft patina and iron coiled 'counterweight' its saving grace.
I once found an article about 19thC Sudanese souvenirs that were manufactured in Britain !!?? Will try and find it again ...as this spear could be a candidate.

Kind Regards David

[colin henshaw]

Hi there

This spear is from Somalia.

Regards.

[katana]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi there

This spear is from Somalia.

Regards.

Hi Colin,
is flat sheet steel usual for this type of spearhead ? and if so would this give an indication of approx. age ? and whether ceremonial or functional ?

Kind Regards David

[stephen wood]

Somalia? Never seen one like it before. It looks quite old but yes, it does seem to be sheet metal welded onto the socket. Strange shape - like a spade. Are there any pictures anywhere of one like this?

[colin henshaw]

Hi David

I've seen quite a few with that type of "sheet metal" blade, sometimes with a midrib. You can often see file marks on the metal. Functional I am sure, probably early 20th century, from what was British Somaliland. The twist of iron at the end of the shaft is typical.

Regards

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Colin,
is flat sheet steel usual for this type of spearhead ? and if so would this give an indication of approx. age ? and whether ceremonial or functional ?

Kind Regards David

[katana]

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi David

I've seen quite a few with that type of "sheet metal" blade, sometimes with a midrib. You can often see file marks on the metal. Functional I am sure, probably early 20th century, from what was British Somaliland. The twist of iron at the end of the shaft is typical.

Regards

Thanks Colin
Regards David

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by stephen wood

Somalia? Never seen one like it before. It looks quite old but yes, it does seem to be sheet metal welded onto the socket. Strange shape - like a spade. Are there any pictures anywhere of one like this?

Are there any photos of spears similar that suggest this is Sudanese?

David, I know what you mean on the British production of souveniers and saw the same detail someplace while studying kaskaras, and cant recall where it was exactly. I think the burgeoning cottage industry that developed this production of items for native sale was to serve the developing economy of this British colony, and evolved over time into the Kasalla works for kaskaras.Anyone here interested in further reading on this should read Ed Hunley's outstanding dissertation on our site here.

The British firm of Martingale (I believe is the name) produced blades for the Kenyan seme' swords, and they were a tool making company. In the Sudan many kaskara blades were made from metal stock in railroad yards ( I think Ed mentions Atbara). Briggs has some information noting sheet steel being used and metal stock stamps showing up on some blades.

All the best,
Jim

[katana]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Are there any photos of spears similar that suggest this is Sudanese?

David, I know what you mean on the British production of souveniers and saw the same detail someplace while studying kaskaras, and cant recall where it was exactly. I think the burgeoning cottage industry that developed this production of items for native sale was to serve the developing economy of this British colony, and evolved over time into the Kasalla works for kaskaras.Anyone here interested in further reading on this should read Ed Hunley's outstanding dissertation on our site here.

The British firm of Martingale (I believe is the name) produced blades for the Kenyan seme' swords, and they were a tool making company. In the Sudan many kaskara blades were made from metal stock in railroad yards ( I think Ed mentions Atbara). Briggs has some information noting sheet steel being used and metal stock stamps showing up on some blades.

All the best,
Jim

Hi Jim
I believe the article was written by Micheal Stevenson ....I have checked to find the link I previously had ...but there is a different webpage that 'comes up' I stupidly did not copy it. I remember linking the article in a previous post .. and may have quoted from it on a thread...but cannot find it...I wouldn't be surprised if you have a copy on your hardrive

If memory serves, these Sudanese souvenirs were produced in either Birmingham or Sheffield ...shipped to the Sudan, sold to the British ...only to be 'brought back' as genuine items .....

As regards railway lines used as a source metal for swords....the steel quality is extremely good with, I believe, a reasonable carbon content suitable to manufacture blades.

Still truckin' in the Bookmobile ??

All the best
Kind Regards David

All the best

[Jim McDougall]

Hi David,
I think you're right, it was probably Birmingham, and I think I have some note of this in the heaps of notes stuffed away in the bookmobile.....yup, still truckin!! Matter of fact we finally got on the road yesterday to get out of Texas....its burnin up here....headed north to mountains maybe Arizona near Grand Canyon.

All the best,
Jim

[colin henshaw]

Hi

For anyone interested in Somali material - I found this old photo showing different weapons and objects...

Regards