Little SEA knife for ID

VVV · 4th July 2011, 05:09 PM

Detlef,

According to my experience it is Charles' knives that are atypical - not yours, Maurice's and mine. Take a look in the Leiden database for example to see what I mean.

Michael

Sajen · 4th July 2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Detlef,

According to my experience it is Charles' knives that are atypical - not yours, Maurice's and mine. Take a look in the Leiden database for example to see what I mean.

Michael

Hello Michael,

yes, you are correct by this!

But I would be very happy when Charles would change his atypical one against my typical ones!

I just think that your second one and the both from Charles are the older ones which can be used as weapons and the other ones are just utility knifes.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 5th July 2011, 07:17 AM

Yes Michael, my post did move away from the theme.

The only reason I made that post was to show exactly what is used to harvest rice.

In every place I have ever visited in Indonesia, farmers use tools to harvest rice, and those tools look pretty much like what farmers in Europe, America and Australia used to use before harvesting became mechanised.

They do not use nicely forged and finished blades mounted in elegant scabbards with finely carved horn hilts, to harvest rice.

VVV · 5th July 2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...snip

They do not use nicely forged and finished blades mounted in elegant scabbards with finely carved horn hilts, to harvest rice.

That sounds reasonable.
Here are three of my arit that does not fit that description. Do you, or any other forumite, know what these were used for, if not agricultural?

Michael

Atlantia · 5th July 2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

That sounds reasonable.
Here are three of my arit that does not fit that description. Do you, or any other forumite, know what these were used for, if not agricultural?

Michael

Hi Michael,

I have his twin brother:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13919

A. G. Maisey · 5th July 2011, 11:49 PM

Michael, in respect of the three items that you have shown, I am unable to comment in specifics, because I have not ever seen any of these in a place of origin, nor in use, however, they do look rather similar to tools I have seen used for harvesting coconuts and bananas.

I myself have some items of a similar nature that have every appearance of agricultural implements, but are finely finished, and not at all like the tools that are used by farmers. I have also seen, but do not own, very much older farm tools that date back more than 100 years, these were in all respects similar to today's tools.

In Jawa, Bali and Madura, probably the implement that has been used most as a weapon is the arit, or as it is in Madura, the celurit. In any rural area you hardly ever see a farmer without one, either dangling from his hand, or stuck in the back of his waist-band. When disagreements occur, the arit is right there, and it gets used. I have seen several incidents involving use of an arit as a weapon, and in the daily newspapers in Central Jawa, incidents involving fights or assaults with an arit are common. During the purges of communists in the 1960's, in East Jawa, the common method of execution was to cut throats with a celurit. My wife witnessed this twice.

If we look at the weaponry of Jawa , what we find is that apart from the keris and the tombak, most of the other weapons can be identified as agricultural implements, either refined versions of these, or actual tools used as weapons.

Rick · 6th July 2011, 01:47 AM

I believe that Conrad in his short story Victory has one of his characters use a Korambit as his favorite weapon .

VVV · 6th July 2011, 08:33 AM

Alan,

Actually that seems to be the case world wide, you use what you have around you when you need a weapon.
I do have arit and celurit that, based on their size, seems to be made solely for fighting. But none of these have much adornment, which I find strange.
Do you have any idea why tools for harvesting coconuts and bananas are more finely finished than those used for rice?

Michael

6th July 2011, 01:47 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Anectdotally .... Trivia I believe that Conrad in his short story Victory has one of his characters use a Korambit as his favorite weapon . Last edited by Rick; 6th July 2011 at 02:33 AM. Reason: Wrong weapon ...doh !

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

4th July 2011, 05:09 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Detlef, According to my experience it is Charles' knives that are atypical - not yours, Maurice's and mine. Take a look in the Leiden database for example to see what I mean. Michael

5th July 2011, 07:17 AM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Yes Michael, my post did move away from the theme. The only reason I made that post was to show exactly what is used to harvest rice. In every place I have ever visited in Indonesia, farmers use tools to harvest rice, and those tools look pretty much like what farmers in Europe, America and Australia used to use before harvesting became mechanised. They do not use nicely forged and finished blades mounted in elegant scabbards with finely carved horn hilts, to harvest rice.

5th July 2011, 11:49 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Michael, in respect of the three items that you have shown, I am unable to comment in specifics, because I have not ever seen any of these in a place of origin, nor in use, however, they do look rather similar to tools I have seen used for harvesting coconuts and bananas. I myself have some items of a similar nature that have every appearance of agricultural implements, but are finely finished, and not at all like the tools that are used by farmers. I have also seen, but do not own, very much older farm tools that date back more than 100 years, these were in all respects similar to today's tools. In Jawa, Bali and Madura, probably the implement that has been used most as a weapon is the arit, or as it is in Madura, the celurit. In any rural area you hardly ever see a farmer without one, either dangling from his hand, or stuck in the back of his waist-band. When disagreements occur, the arit is right there, and it gets used. I have seen several incidents involving use of an arit as a weapon, and in the daily newspapers in Central Jawa, incidents involving fights or assaults with an arit are common. During the purges of communists in the 1960's, in East Jawa, the common method of execution was to cut throats with a celurit. My wife witnessed this twice. If we look at the weaponry of Jawa , what we find is that apart from the keris and the tombak, most of the other weapons can be identified as agricultural implements, either refined versions of these, or actual tools used as weapons.

6th July 2011, 08:33 AM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Alan, Actually that seems to be the case world wide, you use what you have around you when you need a weapon. I do have arit and celurit that, based on their size, seems to be made solely for fighting. But none of these have much adornment, which I find strange. Do you have any idea why tools for harvesting coconuts and bananas are more finely finished than those used for rice? Michael