Nice Java Keris?

[VVV]

Usually I don't buy "plain" (= without explicit artistic features) Solo keris because I am not good enough on Javanese keris to fully understand and appreciate them. But somehow this one caught my interest.
I look forward to all kinds of feedback to learn more about it.

Michael

[Marcokeris]

Dear Michael
From the pics, IMO, gayaman (cendana?) pendok, mendak, ukiaran (tayuman?) seem OK. Also the blade seems enought old.
If the price is GOOD ................................why not to buy it!

[GIO]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Dear Michael
From the pics, IMO, gayaman (cendana?) pendok, mendak, ukiaran (tayuman?) seem OK. Also the blade seems enought old.
If the price is GOOD ................................why not to buy it!

I agree: good old blade with new clothes.

[VVV]

Thanks Marco and Gio,

Actually I already bought it, just needed some feedback because I would like to learn more about Javanese keris.

Michael

[Gustav]

I also have my difficulties with old Javanese keris. They mostly are worn down in a degree, which makes very difficult to appreciate them as a work of art (for an european), even if the details were good shaped in original state.

Probably the best way to learn, what are the norms of good workmanship, is to take Jensen's CD and compare it with the well preserved european examples there, detail for detail.

The gonjo looks a little bit strange to me - a replacement? Probably different material used.

[GIO]

The gonjo looks a little bit strange to me - a replacement? Probably different material used.[/QUOTE]

Yes, most probably a replacement: it doesn't match neither size nor pamor.

[Sajen]

Hello Michael,

nice keris you get there. I think that it have the dapur Carita Keprabon (11 luk, 2 lambe gajah, kembang kacang, jalen ..). I don't think that the wrongko is recent since I see wear. The very well carved hilt may be recent but is good matching. The blade shall get a new stain to see better the pamor, I think that will come out a nice wos wutah. Is the pendok from gold or gold plated?

Regards,

Detlef

[Greybeard]

Hello Michel

I agree with Detlef: Carita Keprabon, pamor Wos Wutah. The ganja might have been replaced. In any event, in my opinion it's a very nice keris -- congratulations!

Regards,

Heinz

[Greybeard]

Sorry, Michael -- I just noticed that I misspelt your name ...

Regards,

Heinz

[A. G. Maisey]

Michael, you have asked for opinions, and I will apologise in advance for mine. This is necessary because I look at keris in a different way to most people within the community that forms this Forum, and what I will write will not not be quite as complimentary as that which has been written by others.

I am inclined to believe that the wrongko would date from prior to WWII, but it has probably been fitted with a new pendok. I do not think that this wrongko was made specifically for this blade, but originally had a smaller blade fitted to it. The tell is that in a wrongko made for a specific blade both the buntut urang and the sirah cecak should mate perfectly to the level of the top of the wrongko, in the case of this keris that is not the case, the sirah cecak sits below the level of the top of the wrongko. The previous blade in this wrongko would have been a smaller one, because the mouth of the wrongko does not appear to have been filled. This opinion could only be confirmed by physical examination.

As we all recognise, it is difficult to classify and appraise a blade from photographs alone, however, in the case of your blade there are a few things that can be said.

This blade is in the style of Mataram, but it is not an old Mataram blade of either Senopaten or Sultan Agungan style.

The quality of the garap is only so-so, the kembang kacang is weak, there has been quite a bit of erosion take place, but the pamor is still more or less intact. If I handled this blade, I feel that I would probably classify it as Koripan.

Koripan is a blacksmith's village near Jogja, that made blades in the style of Mataram, and as commercial production. It is still functioning as a blacksmith's village and makes tools that can be found in the markets all over Central Jawa.

I would need to closely examine the blade before I would be prepared to say that the gonjo is not original. Very often a gonjo was made from a separate billet, and this was particularly the case with commercially produced blades. Similarly, in a bespoke blade, the gonjo would sometimes be made from different material, and with a different pamor, at the request of the client. To have a reasonable chance of guessing if this gonjo is a replacement or not, close physical examination would be necessary.

With keris, as with virtually all other items that are collected, the price will indicate the quality. Good keris, whether old or recent, cost good money, and in recent times have become very scarce. I have not seen a good quality sleeper in years.

However, with all that said, this remains a fair example of a Central Javanese keris in the Surakarta style.

[Jean]

Hello Alan,
Thank you for your thorough and interesting evaluation of this kris. Could you tell us from and until approximately which dates did the Koripan smiths manufacture such types of blades? I think that I may have a number of these blades in my collection.
Thank you and best regards
Jean

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I don't think that this is known for a fact.

I have been told from the first half of the 18th century through to about 1825, however, other people have claimed that they were still producing blades into the beginning of the 20th century, but I have never seen a blade that could be classified as Koripan that was so young as that. The condition that most of them are in, I'd be prepared to accept that they might have begun at least around the beginning of the 18th century.

There are an enormous number of the Koripan blades around.In most cases if a dealer in Central Jawa offers one for sale they will be presented as Mataram, and they are Mataram style, but bigger, coarser and less refined than any of the genuine Mataram sub-types.

[VVV]

Thanks to all that has responded, shared their experience and helped me with specific comments!
This has been very helpful and educating. Now and then you have to give it a try even if Javanese blades aren't among my main collection fields.

Michael

[David]

Originally Posted by VVV

This has been very helpful and educating. Now and then you have to give it a try even if Javanese blades aren't among my main collection fields.

Michael, while it is IMO desirable to learn everything possible about any keris we own and i personally strive to take the bad news with the good, ultimately the only thing that really matters is whether or not you like the blade. For what ever reason you found yourself drawn to this particular keris. I have many keris in my collection that are far from being masterpieces of their form, yet they called to me for one reason or another and for most of them i am still very happy to have them in my collection. I think there is more going on with keris then merely technical artistic excellence.

[VVV]

So true David, that was the reason I bought it from the beginning and why I will keep it.

Michael

[PenangsangII]

old or new doesnt really matter as long as its made by someone with the knowledge of an empu. Based on fotos, i would say the blade was made by someone with sufficient knowlege in keris craftmanship, esp with regards to the measurement of blumbangan, the luks, the sogokan and the pucuk. However, the garap of the pamor is quite rough.

[A. G. Maisey]

Regrettably, this keris was not made by an empu.

Pandai keris perhaps, but not empu.

[Jean]

Hello Alan,
For me this tangguh Koripan information is a revelation for understanding the origin of the old and medium quality Javanese blades attributed to tangguh Mataram. If possible could you show us the pictures of few representative specimens of these Koripan blades?
Do you know of any other large kris making center in Central Java or East Java (Tuban?) in the past?

Thank you and best regards
Jean

[A. G. Maisey]

Koripan is really pretty basic stuff. Its the place that is best known for commercially produced blades in Central Jawa, however, I guess you don't get to hear about it unless you're Javanese, because as I said, the dealers almost invariably present these blades as Mataram.

I can't show you pictures. I might have a few Koripan blades in stock, I've got none in my collection, but to find them would involve time and work. I'm sorry. However, if you note the salient features of this blade of Michael's virtually all Koripan blades will look similar.

AND bear this in mind, I said :- "If I handled this blade, I feel that I would probably classify it as Koripan."

That's a qualification Jean. I'm 90+% sure its Koripan, but in the hand there could be indicators that pushed my opinion in a different direction.

We all know Tuban, but that's actually a tangguh, rather than designation of a specific village location. Tuban was a sea port, and blades passed through it as items of trade, both for places outside Jawa, and for the interior. The tradition is that Tuban made blades for use in the various kingdoms--- Pajajaran, Majapahit, Mataram--- but Tuban never had the industrial capacity to do this, if you read the old accounts of Tuban, it was just a muddy little sea port, however, smiths from surrounding areas would have brought their product to Tuban to sell.

There was Gresik, which is well known for copies of old historic tangguhs, like Pajajaran, Segaluh, Majapahit. Pretty easy to pick the Gresik copies because the material almost invariably has a greasy feel to it.

This is what I can think of easily. There were other places scattered all over that produced blades "in the style of", some of these are decent, some are just pretty ordinary, but only a few have been given their own widely known classifications, like Matesih ( Mataram Matesih) and Madiun.

I don't think that we can take this identication of a couple of places as identification of any source for ordinary blades. Going back a couple of hundred years or so, I believe you would have found pandai keris and skilled smiths right across Jawa who produced the occasional keris blade.

[Jean]

Thank you Alan for the additional information and I fully understand your qualification, and will remember that the Gresik blades look greasy, haha!
Best regards
Jean

[A. G. Maisey]

Feel greasy Jean.

Feel greasy.

[Jean]

Hello Alan,
Thanks for the correction. Like may be other collectors I feel puzzled by these descriptions of blades feeling wet or dry or greasy to the touch, could you please elaborate a little about it?
Regarding the copy blades from Gresik, during which approximate period were they manufactured?
Thank you and best regards
Jean

[A. G. Maisey]

Sorry Jean, the dating of Gresik manufacture is not a part of this belief system

In respect of "greasy". If you run your fingers over a normal old keris blade it will feel moderately rough and textured. If you run your fingers over an old Gresik blade there is a smooth, slippery feel to the metal, the surface does not catch your fingers like other blades do.

[Jean]

Thank you very much Alan

[sirek]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In respect of "greasy". If you run your fingers over a normal old keris blade it will feel moderately rough and textured. If you run your fingers over an old Gresik blade there is a smooth, slippery feel to the metal, the surface does not catch your fingers like other blades do.

When I began reading the explanation of greasy, I wanted to show this keris,
I always found it surface had a greasy look and feel, what I've never seen before in a keris.

I hope the pictures shows what I mean.

[A. G. Maisey]

Very peculiar keris this one.

Boto adeg blumbangan, tiny kembang kacang that is out of proportion, odo2, pawakan reminiscent of Bugis, greneng that does not say anything at all about Jawa.

It looks as if it is in Javanese dress, but I rather doubt that this is a Javanese blade. Too many anomalies.

[PenangsangII]

does greasy mean "Nggajih"?

The straight blade with very prominent condong leleh looks very Sumatran to me, probably of Palembang or Lampung provenance. If the dress was original, then the closest to Jawa would be Cirebon. The ricikan is Sumatran of course.

[A. G. Maisey]

No penangsang.

Nggajih means "fat", certainly, but it refers to the appearance of some pamor, not to the feel of it.

[sirek]

Thank you all for the information and sharing these interesting explanations.

Perhaps this picture shows more clearly what is meant /explained